What processor to use?

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Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#1
I have all the parts in to assemble my first custom computer minus the processor. I want to overclock it to a point where it is very stable. Here are my guts of it.

Abit BE6 mobo
AHA-3950U2 SCSI card
Quantum Atlas 10k ultra 160 hd
Diamond Viper V770 32MB Ultra TNT-2 4X agp
Pionieer DVD-103S Atapi DVD drive
LS-120 floppy
Micron PC-133 128MB x 2 memory
Sound Blaster Live Value
USR 56k V.90 internal modem (not winmodem)

Now I need the processor, but I need one that is stable beyond 600MHz for o/c. Also does anyone know how well my setup will handle overclocking. This will be my first attempt at o/c so I want to do it right


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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
Dimarini

Dimarini

New Member
#2
Why did you get a BE6 if you are going to use a SCSI hard drive?

As far as processor, you can try a Celeron 366 on an slotket adapter, but you would be lucky to see over 600. Your best shot would probably be a PIII 550 because the 500's will generally make it almost to 600 but not necessarily beyond. The 550 should make it to 616 or 645 with adequate cooling.



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Mike
www.monster-machines.com
 
S

Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#3
While I have seen mobo's with built in SCSI, I do not like the performance (and price) of mobo's with the built in unit. UDMA/66 also sux compared to SCSI >
so I opted for a PCI SCSI card.
If it doesn't work to well......oh well, I'll donate the beast to my wife with a PIII 600 cpu and try another setup with a P3B-F mobo.

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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
C

ckkim

New Member
#4
Many PIII 450 seem to do well at 600
that's if it's the right one.
Check
www.overclockers.com
the database for s-code, plant, week, etc...

btw, you sound like a man with little more than extra $$ in your pocket, why not just buy 600mhz cpu, and forget the overlock?

[This message has been edited by ckkim (edited 09-19-99).]
 
S

Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#5
Could do, but why put the extra money when we could get more

Thanx for the web site


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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
C

ckkim

New Member
#6
as you probably noticed on that webpage
SL3CC MALAYSIA and SL3CC Malaysia
seem to OC at 600.
Also week 22 or later

Get one of these and you should be ok .


[This message has been edited by ckkim (edited 09-19-99).]
 
D

daveg

New Member
#7
When overclock your processor you overclock all your pci and agp perefirals. Agp and pci speed are proportionate to your fsb speed. This what I think your agp and pci will be running at with different memory speeds.


FSB(memory) agp pci
100MHZ * 66Mhz 33Mhz
112Mhz* 74Mhz 37Mhz
117 78 39
120 80 40
124* 82 31
129 86 32
133 89 33

* this are what I would go for.
your tnt2 might not like 89+Mhz. keep to 124Mhz or below and you should be fine. As far as Iam aware SCSI harddrives in general don't like been o/c Try and keep between 31-37Mhz.
c366 5.5*66 =366Mhz
c366 5.5*100=550Mhz
c366 5.5*112=616Mhz
c366 5.5*124=682Mhz

p3500 5*100=500
5*120=600
5*124=620
p3550 (same as c366)

p3600 6*100=600Mhz
6*110=660Mhz
I would get a c366 or p3500,p3550. Swiftech are selling pretested [email protected](100-117FSB), p3500'[email protected](120FSB), p3550'[email protected](117FSB)However you must also buy the peltier cooler that comes with it, although this isn't such a bad thing.

Performance of the celeron is is about equal to a p3 if they both have the same clock and memory speed , e.g p3 [email protected](117bus)= celeron [email protected](117bus). This can only be achieved by o/c. If the software is optimised for the p3's instruction set then the p3 will be quicker.If not then you will get about the same performance.

try these

www.swiftnets.com
www.pcnuts.com?
www.outsideloop.com?

If you live in the uk like me try
ukgamers.com
advanuk.com?


If I was you a [email protected]+ from swiftech would be my choice.Those peltiers should keep it super cool.
 
S

Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#8
Thanks for the advise
. My mobo has the option to down clock the AGP (2/3), but after reading the manual, I do not think I can down clock the PCI >:[. I am aware that the P3B-F can do both, but I also hear it is still to "new" and has conflicts with alot of hardware. Should I didch the scsi and put it in my HP and buy a DMA/66, or should I experiment with it and see if it will work with the o/c'ing?

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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
D

daveg

New Member
#9
Before I posted my reply I had quick look at anandtech's review of the BE6. He said it automatically uses a 4 divider for the pci above 124Mhz. Here's the link

http://www.anandtech.com/html/review_display.cfm?document=1022

It would be a shame to fry a top of the range SCSI. I could be totally wrong here but a hard drive cooler might help. I think there a discussion board for hardrives on anandtech bbs. Someone there should be able to give soom sound advise.

Myself I wouldn't risk taking a good hardrive like yours past 37Mhz. I think that only rules out 115,117& 120Mhz bus, assuming I've read things correctly at anandtech. So you've still got plenty of options.

Alternatively you could try an athlon. To o/c it you increase the cpu multiplier not the bus speed so your scsi will be fine. I think overclocking the athlon requires soldering some pins!!!!!! so you might want to wait until a better way is found to o/c the athlon.

If you don't mind taking the risk then go for it, however if your strapped for cash then don't bother.
 
D

DrFoo

New Member
#10
There seems to be some confusion over an overclocked PCI bus. This will not damage your drives! While theoretically you could damage a PCI card that way, within these limits, it aint gonna happen. All that can happen is you will trash your data and sometimes need to reformat.

The interface is being overclocked, not the actual drives. This can make it unreliable, that's all. In fact with SCSI, the interface to the drives is not even effected, just the interface between the controller and the system.

It's very true though that SCSI cards are more sensitive to this than most other PCI cards. That, by the way, is one reason why onboard SCSI can actually be better. Especially from Asus.



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-=DrFoo {Sysop} Third Wave BBS (941) 355-7136=-
http://dsl150-37.cftnet.com
 
S

Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#11
Thanks for the help
, I read up in my manual more and whenever I change the FSB, it automatically changes the PCI bus speed to get it as close to 33MHz as possible. So if I went to a 124MHz FSB it would bring it down to 31MHz..I do not think that 2MHz will affect the SCSI to much.
ASUS and SCSI huh...well the SCSI I have is surely PCI..but like ASUS uses, it is an Adaptec. So I expect no conflicts. If there is, I will stuff it into my wife's computer and she can benifit her tired computer. (I do think it transfers too much data for a P133 though..if that is the case ill give her my HP 8290)

What I am worried about is my video. I sure hate to see that beauty goto waste

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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
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Diogenes

New Member
#12
V770 is supposed to support AGP 4X, which is 132MHZ ... So you should not have any problem with the card... Not sure how BX chip handles higher (than standard) AGP clocks....
 
S

Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#13
Well my mobo supports 2X AGP...and like you say, 4X AGP on the card. But what does all this mean? I just ordered the stuff because it sounded good and has good reviews. This is my first computer im gunna build myself that has the sole purpose of overclocking the hell out of it. Other computers I built were never overclocked (except of a P166 at 200 because I set the wrong jumpers
)So far it looks like I can get upto the low to mid 700MHz range, but I have yet to build it.

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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
jjr512

jjr512

New Member
#14
Going all the way back to one of the earlier posts on this topic, where you say that you don't like the pricing of a mobo w/ on-board SCSI, I don't understand that. The lowest price I could find (on Pricewatch.com) for an Adaptec AHA-2940U2W (80MB/s) card was $190. Add in a $100 mobo and that's $290. You can get mobos with Adaptec's on-board version of the same SCSI (80MB/s) for this price or less, and it would be easier to configure.
DrFoo, you appear to like Asus mobos with SCSI. What do you (or anybody else) think of the P2B-LS, with 80MB/s SCSI and 10/100 ethernet on-board? I've found this for around $315. Is it very overclockable and stable, and also, does it work with the Pentium-III (Asus' website and other reviews only mention the P-II). Thanks!

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jjr512 "The Terminator"
Justin J. Rebbert
[email protected]
 
D

DrFoo

New Member
#15
A trick to discover if newer CPUs are suppported is to check the BIOS update pages.
This from Asus:

P2B-LS BIOS Ver. 1009. 05/10/99

1.Microcode update for Intel Pentium® III 550 CPU upgraded to revision 005.

2.Fix for serial port failure running Windows 2000.

3.Added keyboard wakeup item with three choices of key combinations for models with W977 I/O chip.

4.Fix for CPU clock detection error when speed > 512MHz.

5.Upgraded L2 cache reference code to Revision 3.4.

6.Added microcode update support for PIII C0 stepping. (550MHz part)
I have never personally overclocked one of the SCSI P2B models. After all, they are mostly used for servers and I tend to be very conservative with those.


Basically the entire original P2B series is quite similar though. In fact, the SCSI models tend to be even better made since they are considered high-end server products. I have no doubt you would be happy with it. I wish I could afford one for myself. Maybe one day soon...




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-=DrFoo {Sysop} Third Wave BBS (941) 355-7136=-
http://dsl150-37.cftnet.com
 
S

Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#16
First off, ASUS makes no mobo with built in ultra 160/m scsi. I need the data speed of the 160. Otherwise I would have bought it.
Second, going the Abit way costed me less with the most features. At the time of purchase the BE6 costed me $102 landed, to get a ASUS unit (P3B-F) would have costed me $127 landed.
Had I known of the 6BA+III I would have gotten that instead since it costs less. But only by $10, so im not really out anything.

To answer your ? to DrFoo, the P2B-LS is a very good mobo, my dad runs them in three of his servers, but none of them are o/c'ed so I dont what to tell you there. So at cpu specs, I would recommend them.

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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
S

Sinful_Weeper

New Member
#18
My sons school project...then I get the computer
when he's done.
I dont know what he is doing though, but it requires somewhere around 90 apps to be run at the same time. I was going to let him use one of my other computers, but the PII 450, PII400, PIII 500 just dont cut it. They all lock up and then crash. Alot more will be added to the computer for the project, but I just wanted to get my multimedia done with since it was the most expensive ( DAMN ALL THE SOFTWARE IS WHAT BITES!!!
) That is why I need the beast to be overly overclocked. And the Athalon floating point just does not cut it (so i've read). Maybe if I add more memory to my current PIII 500 it will do the trick, but its still a slow processor for what needs to be done. That is why I need to know what processor can handle upto the 700-750 range by o/c'ing The most I've seen so far is 720, but it would lock up after 10min of use. I need to break that mark by another two hours (so he says). So with the right cooling I might be able to do it.

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If God didn't want us to eat cows....He wouldn't have made them out of meat!!!
 
jjr512

jjr512

New Member
#19
Well, I can't say from personal experience anything about trying to run 90 apps all at the same time. But I do know this. The more apps you run, often it is not the processor or the amount of memory you actually have or the speed or size of your hard drives that causes problems. I thought it was the 'resources' that ran out first. I understand resources enough for myself but not enough to explain them. You probably know at least as much as I do, so you probably don't need to hear this, but anyway... Resources are 3 chunks of memory used by Windows to keep track of things like window positions and icons and stuff like that. That's part of the reason they run out under many apps is because of all the windows that need to be kept track of. There is a tool that comes with Windows that lets you monitor resources, it's called the Resource Monitor. It's either already installed and located in your System Utilities folder, or if it's not installed you can install it by going to the Windows components tab of the install programs control panel. It can run in the tray showing a meter. Holding the pointer over it shows the percent free of each resource type. My point is that ultimately it may be resources that prevents 90 apps from running, not hard drive speed. But, if you do actually manage to get 90 apps running, you probably will need all the speed you can get.
BTW if anybody wants to correct my explanation of resources, or make it more readable, please feel free, I want to see a better explanation myself.

Also, sorry Sinful_Weeper, I didn't realize the card you meant was a 160MB/s. I knew they were coming but didn't know they were out yet. I assumed it was either a RAID controller or a card with more channels than the 2940.

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jjr512 "The Terminator"
Justin J. Rebbert
[email protected]




[This message has been edited by jjr512 (edited 09-22-99).]
 
jjr512

jjr512

New Member
#20
Sinful_Weeper, I was looking at Adaptec's website at the 3950U2 and here's what I get from it. Please correct me on any point if I'm wrong, because they didn't get very technical about how they do it. They say that they get the 160MB/s using 2 U2 channels simultaneously, meaning they split the data to 2 80MB/s drives. I figure the controller sends half the data to one drive and the other half to the second drive at the same time, effectively doubling the transfer rate. Is this correct?

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jjr512 "The Terminator"
Justin J. Rebbert
[email protected]
 

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