[RESOLVED] Trying to upgrade Celeron to P4 - fails

R

rlg

New Member
#1
I have a Gigabyte GA-8SIMLP motherboard with a 1.7GHz Celeron processor.
The motherboard is rated up to a Pentium 4 2.2Ghz processor. Socket 478.
I bought a 2.0GHz P4 (Northwood) and installed it but the computer locks up.
It locks up sometimes as I'm looking at the bios settings and sometimes waits til windows is starting up (WIN XP SP3). It also locks up in safe mode. It has never completely booted up.

The bios was upgraded previously when I increased the memory to 2GB (DDR 266, except I'm using DDR 400 sticks).

I sent the P4 back and got a replacement but that one didn't work either.
When I put the Celeron back in everything works fine. I'm using a new CPU cooler and there is no overheating problem. All the voltages are good. The chipset is a SIS-650.
Any suggestions?:confused:
 
jimbo1763

jimbo1763

Moderator
#2
If you can get into the BIOS, then the machine must be POSTing.

I might suspect that the machine doesn't like the RAM with the new processor. Do you have slower RAM to try, one stick at a time? And are you confident that there is no issue with it (you can run memtest 86+ on it to test it)? That being said, I note that apparently the old processor has no issues with the RAM?

Are you adding anything new to the machine that might be causing the issue?
 
DanceMan

DanceMan

Procrastinating Member
#3
I would update the bios to the latest available, even though I would guess your current bios should be adequate.

I'd wonder about your power supply, if it's a generic or getting old.

But I think jimbo has already hit on the key element: ram. Ram issues can cause a lockup. As he suggested, run Memtest 86+. You can do it from a floppy if the computer still has one, or from a bootable cd. You don't run it from Windows. Some live linux cd's have Memtest in the boot choices (Ubuntu does), but the best tool to have is the Ultimate Boot CD. It's a free download of freeware utilities that you burn to a cd, which you then use to boot the computer. Aside from Memtest it also contains all the manufacturer hard drive test utilities and many other useful tools.

I'd still flash the bios to the latest if you're comfortable doing that; since you're updating the cpu, there could be subtle changes that would help.

Another thing that comes to mind is that I've experienced lockups due to overheated ram. If the faster, hotter cpu is increasing temps inside the case and raising ram temps, perhaps that could be an avenue to pursue. How good is airflow through the case to get rid of increased heat?
 
R

rlg

New Member
#4
I have removed the two sticks of 1GB DDR 400 and installed one 512 MB DDR 266 that was previously installed.

After choosing "load fail safe defaults" in BIOS and choosing safe mode (which noticed a new hardware device and requested a reboot), I can boot as far into windows normally as the wallpaper. At that time there is no more control of the mouse and further loading of windows stops.

The icons at the bottom don't load (quick launch, task manager, time) and the icons on the desktop don't display. Only the wallpaper shows with an unresponsive cursor arrow. The optical mouse is energized (light shining) and plugged directly into the PS/ port.

I flashed the BIOS but it showed the same version that was already there. So my BIOS was the latest.

Overheating is not a problem as I previously added an additional case fan that sucks in air and monitor temps: Around 35 deg C on both the CPU and system when the Celeron is installed.

I am downloading the Ultimate Boot disk as I type this message (on my other computer). Great suggestion, I used to have that but lost it.

Since I substituted memory, I doubt that the memtest will show anything. But will run it anyway after the download. Thanks for the help so far.

If I can't upgrade I'll just go back to the Celeron.
 
R

rlg

New Member
#5
My power supply is an Allied 300W.
The computer was bought in 2002. I monitor the voltages with a utility and they are fine with the Celeron installed.
 
R

rlg

New Member
#6
I attempted to post a longer reply but got a message that it needs to be reviewed by the moderator. Here is a shorter version:

Replaced memory with one 512 MB DDR 266 previously used. Windows locks up as the wallpaper displays. No icons loaded and no control from mouse at that point.

Bios is the latest.
 
R

rlg

New Member
#7
Ok I downloaded the Ultimate Boot CD and ran Memtest86+ on the 512 MB stick.
It passed with no errors.

The Processor ID utility said I was overclocked: 2.02 GHz, 404 MHz bus.
I tried slowing it down in the BIOS but my only speed options are even faster.

The problem remains. Boots into windows and stops at the wallpaper screen with no mouse control and no desktop icons, no quick launch, no time showing (all the stuff that usually shows at the bottom).

I could try removing two of the PCI boards: The USB 2.0 card and the wireless network card. Maybe I will. Maybe not.
 
R

rlg

New Member
#9
The side was off as I tried to get the Pentium to work.
The side was both on and off as I monitor temperatures with the Celeron.
There has never been a heat issue. The Pentium operates at a lower voltage and has a very similar power wattage as the Celeron. The new cooler has an oversized fan.

If you are thinking about electromagnetic interference coming in through the open case, you might have something. But if your thinking about temperature, I doubt it. I have the BIOS set to give me a warning at 70 deg C.

(By the way, I removed the two PCI cards and the problem persisted.)
 
R

rlg

New Member
#13
I bought it new from an online store.
It was described as new with OEM packaging. No certificate of authenticity and no box.
Just a hard see thru plastic rectangle that opens up with the CPU set into a pink foam. This store had the lowest price - $36.
They replaced the first one that I thought was no good (but was probably OK since the replacement had the same problem). I have attached a picture of the packaging with my Celeron in it. The heat sink paste is on the CPU and plastic.

By the way, my computer is a dual boot (Xp, Win 2000) it boots OK with the Celeron into 2000 but with the Pentium the mouse and keyboard are dead when it comes time to log in.
 

Attachments

R

rlg

New Member
#15
Yes the same result.
The mouse is actually a USB but I added the PS/2 adapter just to provide a solid connection.

The problem persists with just one mouse (USB or PS/2) or with two mice (ps/2 and USB). It's not common knowledge that you can have multiple mice plugged in.
 
DanceMan

DanceMan

Procrastinating Member
#16
We've been assuming that the P4 is good and looking for some reason it's locking up.

Maybe the P4 is defective?
 
R

rlg

New Member
#17
Did you miss the part where I said it was replaced?
I sent the first one back and they sent me a new one to replace it.
Both create the same problem. The chance that both are defective is very small.

BTW I ran Memtest86+ on the 2GB DDR 400 memory and it passed.
 
jimbo1763

jimbo1763

Moderator
#19
What does your BIOS report as the voltage? I "think" that the default vcore for your chip is 1.50v?
 
R

rlg

New Member
#20
No bulging electrolytic capacitors.
VCoreA is 1.46 with Pentium.
1.680 to 1.710 with Celeron.
When the freeze up it is not a blue screen of death because there is nothing written to the event log (system). So it is just a case of it stopping, not a crash.

I enabled boot logging during startup then put the Celeron back in to read the log (ntbtlog.txt).

The drivers load almost the same except it stops a few drivers short with the Pentium.

Most noticeable is the different processor driver that is loaded. Celeron gets the generic proccessr.sys while the Pentium loads the more specific intelppm.sys. (ppm stands for processor power management I believe)

So I tried to fool the machine by copy & renaming processr.sys to intelppm.sys. But it is hard to rename drivers that are in the systrm32\drivers folder. You think you have renamed something then notice that it still there - just fell down to the bottom of the list.

I will attempt to attach both boot logs to this message for anyone that would like to compare them.
 

Attachments

Associates