[RESOLVED] How to make an artifical fan

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cyril1

New Member
#41
Sorry about that. That is what my scanner saved it as. I did not have much time to change it as my wife and son were both bugging me to get off the computer. Yes I would appreciate the program and I do believe I have some webspace but I have never used it.
If the program is too big to send me, a url where I could download it would be appreciated. Would that same thing work with soundfiles?

Getting back to the diagram. When I tested the circuit it gave a steady 100hz output which should give you an RPM indication of 6000. It would however depend on the tolerance of the components you bought. Could be a few hundred RPM either way. Yes 5V is to power the 555 timer. In the original diagram it said you could use 5-15V but I tested 12V and the Frequency was unstable. Sounded like an airplane taking off. The frequency started at 100hz but kept increasing until it reached about 800hz.(48000RPM)

Since you have 5V available in your case however this should not be a big problem. It just would have been easier with 12V since you could have used the connector off the fan and just plugged the circuit board in. No extra connections.
Do you not have someone there who can make this for you?
By the way once you have it built you can test it by putting a speaker across where the RL was in the original diagram(between the 5v wire and the o/p wire). You should here a low frequency hum coming from the speaker if the cct is working.

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)

[This message has been edited by cyril1 (edited 06-24-2001).]
 
B

Bartleby

New Member
#42
Blade,

Having a look at your schematic for the 555, and it is slightly different than the form I am used to using.

Here is a slightly different schematic for an astable multivibrator using the 555, modified from page 7 of the datasheet:

The only difference is the secondary capacitor. The other schematic has a large capacitor bridged over the voltage source, while this one has a smaller capacitor connected to the control-voltage pin of the 555.

I have used this orientation many times, and from a quick test, it seems to be stable at ~100Hz from <5v to >16v


If, as it seems, you need to reproduce an OC-GND oscillation, the easiest way would be to pass the output of the 555 through a ~10k resistor and into the base of an NPN transistor. Then have the collector connected to the SIG and the emitter connected to GND. This will provide the required OC-GND signal on the fan header.

PS.
sorry about the crappy ASCII schematic. I didn't realise UBB chops out all the extra spaces. Anyway... that circuit does work and is elegant in its simplicity, but the 555 approach is probably the better choice.

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"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it
holds the universe together...."
* Carl Zwanzig
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#43
Thats great Bartleby. I would go with that if it is stable at 12V since you could use your fan connection only. Let me know if you have any questions or you just want me to confirm the stability. I do not doubt it though. It was probably that big value capacitor at the output that was the problem.

Now I have a question for you. I must have been dopey the other night and clicked the wrong button at a website. Now I have a 266mhz thunderbird (1.1G) coming instead of a 200mhz. I have the kt133 chipset and not the kt133A. Am I correct in assuming this will still work just at 200mhz or am I going to have to send it back when it comes?

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#44
I think I'm ok with it now, I'll build it and see what catches fire


I think your 266mhz CPU will work ok but you wont get it to boot at it's default 133mhz fsb out of the KT7 chipset. It would be default set at, (8.5x133 I guess), although that gives 1130mhz? to run it you'd first have to unlock it and run 11 x 100. You maybe able to get the fsb up a bit, (10 x 110), like you are running with the Duron. but not much more with a kt133 chipset KT7.

Is the CPU coming unlocked? do you know about the pencil trick?
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#45
Yes I know about the pencil trick but I would use silver conductive epoxy, not the pen but the stuff you have to mix. That way you only have to do it once. That is what I used to unlock the duron. Worked great.

Saw some conductive tape on one site, already spaced and everything. Looked like the real rig for someone with little experience and no microscope. It wasn't cheap though. Think I will stick with the epoxy. I get it for free at work anyway.
Good luck with the project. Keep us informed.

As long as the 266 will run on this machine and not in a degraded mode from what the 200 would have run then I will keep it. If I change boards later it may come in handy anyway. I want to play with the duron some more to see if I can hit a gig first. Do you think I can do this with just better cooling. I use a socket-AHO with chemtronics HS compound. The heatsink is not lapped. When I tried for a gig both ways it posted but I got windows protection errors. That makes me think the voltage needs to be increased but I would have to mod the board for that and I would prefer not to.

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#46
You'll need damn good eyes and steady hand to do it with epoxy, but it would be more permanent I suppose. I personally haven't had any trouble with the Pencil yet, never having to redo it, (I put a small sticker over it when done so it can't rub off).

The only real advantage to the pencil is if the CPU has to be sent back, removing the epoxy so it can't be detected could be very hard, especially if they have one of these




(been playing with the manual settings today)




[This message has been edited by BladeRunner (edited 06-26-2001).]
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#47
Got your program, thanks! I'll need some time to play with it. I'm going to look into the web thing later. Perhaps you are right about the pencil trick. Just heard of people having problems with it wearing off. What kind of a sticker are you using to keep it there? P.S. I don't have good eyes but I have a microscope. It looks like your camera is as good as a microscope. Man that thing is impressive. How many Mega pixels is that thing?

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#48
I just used a sticker (any paper or vinyl sticker) and made a small round circle by using a hole punch on it. You know the things that make holes in paper so you can put them in a paper binder.

It's important to make sure you cover the bridges well with lead and blow off the excess. If they merge with the one next to them use a pencil eraser to get it clear then some electrical contact cleaner (or brake cleaner) to clean off the rubber traces before having another go.

The other thing is never reuse the sticker as some lead will stick to it.

A Microscope's a good idea, hadn't though of that, I struggled with a magnifying glass with the CPU in the pic, not a bad job as it happens, now I can actually see it


It's 3.34 mega pixel and the Macro performance is very impressive. That Image was taken in Highest quality mode, (manual only), @ 2048x1536 in Tiff format and is shown actual size with no modifaction other than it's a section of the image and saved as a high quality jpg. The original Tiff is 9mb
.... hang on I'll send it to you in an e-mail
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#49


Took me all night but I finally got this working.(not the cct but the image upload) Thought you could use the revised cct of Bartleby's just in case the text was not clear. I would definitely add the transistor since Vcc will now be 12V This will isolate your board from the 12V used to power the 555.
The 3 wires coming from the 555 cct can now go directly to your fan plug.
Enjoy!

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)

[This message has been edited by cyril1 (edited 06-24-2001).]
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#50
Thanks for the update I'm giong to get the parts today, wish I could find somewhere to get a fan plug that small. Congrats on getting the pics working. I had a lot of trouble at first. Just one suggestion. although I said photos need to be saved as jpgs, simple black and white ones can be saved as Gifs. The Gif file format is just limited in it's amount of colour shades so wouldn't work with my colour images for instance. It is however much better for Sandra & Wcpuid benchmarks, and some basic black & white images etc.

Your image saved as a gif is near half the file size and there is a general (unwritten rule) of trying to keeping each image to a size no bigger than 150kb that you are going to link to. It reduces page load time if the files are smaller, quicker upload time for you and leaves more space in your web allowance.
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#51
Again I tried to save the diagram from my scanner to a file. I saved it in Gif format but the file turned out to be 21MB!! I was going to try it again in a jpg format when I noticed the scanner co. had a webpage. I scanned it directly to there and forgot I had chosen the jpg format. I will change it tonight if I get a chance.
Is there a way I can scan this to a file without it being so big. Why is it so much smaller when I scan it to the web? Am I doing something wrong here?

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#52
Yeah I have a scanner like that that always wants to produce enormous Tiffs.


The way I get around it is to scan the image in and look at it in something like Microsoft photo editor for instance, (part of MS office), get it displayed on the screen in a size you like then simply hit Printscreen, (if you have Printkey installed and running in the taskbar). Use the rectangle tool to draw a box around the area you want to save as a pic, then save as a Giff. I shouldn't worry about changing your image as it's not huge , It was just some general advice in passing
the smaller your files are on your site the longer your space allowance will last before you have to delete stuff.

Anyway I've got all the components today so I'll have a go at making the device now.
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#53
By the way I breadboarded the new cct today and confirmed it works. I also found out what the problem was with the 12V oscillation. It was the speaker (not the capacitor) that was causing the instability at 12V.

Since you are not using a speaker in your installation this will not be a problem. If the circuit does not seem to work you can still connect a speaker temporarily across Vcc to pin 3 of the 555. You should hear a sound like a small model airplane at idle. Note that since you are at 12v the frequency at the speaker will start to climb(instability)but this is only meant for go no-go testing since you do not have a scope.

Thanks for the info on the posting of pictures.


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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)

[This message has been edited by cyril1 (edited 06-25-2001).]
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#54
Success!!



I'd like to thank all that helped me get this built


cyril1

I haven't tried it on the card yet but if it works on the mobo it should be the same on the vga (as the p3 fan worked on the vga)

The only thing that I haven't done is fit the npn transistor and resistor you added in the final build, (mainly because I can't work out the which pins are which on the transistor). Something weird though? with a 12v input it runs a buzzer ok without "running away" but when connected to the rotation pin on the mobo it doesn't work and the 555 chip gets red hot. Using 5v as an input voltage it works as shown in the image.



[This message has been edited by BladeRunner (edited 06-26-2001).]
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#55
You see a buzzer and a speaker are two different things. A speaker is very low impedance and a buzzer is higher so it might not cause feedback.

The reason the 555 is heating up is that the voltage on the MB is 5V and the Voltage on the 555 is 12V. The difference of 7V causes a current that has to go somewhere!!!

Thats what the transistor is for, Isolation. Please use it or you may damage your board!!! Post a picture of the transistor and I will see if I can help you with the pins.

P.S. I do not see the picture in your latest post. Maybe because I am at work.

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#56
Ok I've disconnected it but it was working fine at 5v. I understand the 12v problem now you've explained it to me


The pic not showing was me rearanging the folders on my web space, my fault





One other thing, which component & value would I need to change to raise the indicated RPM if required?
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#57
top picture left to right emitter-base-collector. bottom picture left to right collector-base-emitter. The one with the tab is always the emitter.

Sorry got to run. Talk to you later. Without the transistor you will get voltage pulses but with the transistor you will get on and off ground pulses so no harm to your board.

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#58
If you want to change the frequency just change the value of RA and RB. Decreasing their value increases the RPMs and vice versa.

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 
BladeRunner

BladeRunner

Silent & Cool.....
#59
Ok added the npn & resistor, also changed the 47k resistors to 33k giving this very similar speed indication:-



Just need to work out the best way to make a header plug for the vga now as I can't find the same type of plug as the tiny one Asus fit anywhere. I've been trying for over 6 months to get one from Asus or just find their supplier without any luck. (same fan plug as the Asus GTS).
 
C

cyril1

New Member
#60
Glad to see it work out for you Blade. Thats exactly the value of resistor I was going to suggest you try next. I am not sure why the first cct did not give the result of 6000rpm as this is what 100hz is equal to and the frequency I measured on the scope was 100 hz. It probably has something to do with the design of the counter on the GB.
Anyway, just as long as it is doing the trick. That's the main thing.
I had a new video board, CPU and cooler come today and in another couple of weeks I will actually have time to hook them up. I may need your assistance then if I run into problems. Thanks again for your assistance in getting my pictures on to a BBS.

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600 [email protected](9x110FSB)
Abit kt7 raid
256MB Corsair Cas2
Asus TNT2 (untill the LE comes)
 

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