New build--irregular heat in CPU

sneakers

sneakers

Middling experienced user
#1
Dual-core, Intel Pentium D 830, 3.0GHz Socket 775
New Zalman CPU fan # 7000C-ALCU, 120mm, with external speed control, plain white thermal grease

Seagate SATA 80 GB HD

Mobo XFX MG-63MI-7109

Case has a funnel on inside for catching CPU fan heat.
430-Watt P4 Suntec Power Supply

Win XP Pro SP3
=========================

I built this several months ago, and have since replaced the very noisy, junky Intel stock CPU fan. I also replaced the generic PSU with my old Suntec, which had been working nicely on a P3 in an older comp. I often reuse good parts in my builds..

My problem is intermittent. Only every few weeks, on bootup, the CPU gets too hot and the comp won't boot. The BIOS today reported, just after bootup, a CPU temp of 123F and case temp of 109F, both unusually hot for a bootup, but not fatal. The external speed control on the Zalman is turned all the way up. The max for my CPU is listed as 157F, but about 123F seems to be the temp that prevents bootup. Today I resolved it temporarily by opening the case and placing a small room fan, sucking the heat out of the case. CPU went down to 113F and she booted.

The power supply, my even geekier friends tell me, is almost impossible to test, because of possible spikes. I have no way to test the CPU fan either, but I did recheck the thermal grease.

.
Here's the bottom line:
Before I write to Zalman about the new fan, what is the relationship between the 2 fans? If the PSU were running too slow or irregularly, would it affect the temp of the CPU? Or is the CPU temp reliant only on its own fan? My very LAST resort would be to return the Zalman, unless necessary.

Is it possible that it's just a sensor on the mobo reporting a wrong temp?

This is a very large case, originally meant for gaming, which I don't do. Is it possible the PSU is just too small or too slow, and a case fan would solve the problem?
 
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Leoslocks

Leoslocks

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#2
Shown below are two near identical motherboard cpu combos.
Intel DG33TL board with Intel Q6600 (SLACR stepping) 95 watt thermal spec
The operating system is a stripped down Linux version dedicated to running [email protected] from a USB drive. These are running 24 hours a day @100% load. The temperatures are considerable higher than what you posted.
They are running Intel Stock heat sinks and fans.
Top system temps are;Core 0 80C Core 1 71C Core 2 75C Core 3 69C
Bottom system; Core 0 60C Core 1 57C Core 2 58C Core 3 56C
70 C which translates to 158 F is not an abnormal temperature. Your system should boot and work fine.
The Pentium D 830 has a Thermal Design Power of 130 watts. This thing should produce a lot of heat. A faster fan would help but along with CFM comes noise. Still, 70 C is not too excesive. I suspect something else besides heat is halting your boot sequence.
Run a diagnostic tool set on your hard drive
Run a memory diagnostic tool
This is 4 to 5 year old hardware. Anything could be failing from the motherboard, power supply, ram, cpu or just an IDE circuit on the mobo.

Both systems are using Antec Power Supplys.
Top system, Basic 500
Bottom system, Earthwatts 500

 
sneakers

sneakers

Middling experienced user
#3
The mobo is actually a 2-year old model, but I built this in January, and everything was new, right out of the sealed boxes. Ditto the mobo. Only the PSU was used, taken from my older comp.

The RAM has been tested with Memtest. But why would opening the case and setting up a fan get me a bootup? It's happened twice.

I also have to mention that I've had to repair the MBR twice recently.

I just ran DiskCheckup by Passmark. Here are the results:


Drive 0 SMART enabled

IDE REGISTERS:

Features: 0x0 Sector Count: 0x1 Sector Number: 0x1

Cylinder Low: 0x0 Cylinder High: 0x0 Drive Head: 0xA0

Command: 0xEC

DRIVE INFORMATION:

Serial Number: 6RW3GB3M

FirmWare Rev: 4.AAA

Model Number: ST380815AS

Cylinders: 16383 Heads: 16 Sectors per track: 63

Cur Cyls: 16383 Cur Heads: 16 Cur Sectors/Track: 63

Bytes per track: NA Bytes per sector: NA

Gen Config: 3162 Buffer Type: 0 Buffer Size: 16384

Vendor Unique: 0 0 0 More Vendor Unique: 0x8010

ECC Size: 4 Double Word IO: 0 Capabilities: 12032

PIO Timing: 512 DMA Timing: 512 BS: 7

Current Sector Capacity: 16514064 Total Addressable Sectors: 156301488

Mult. Sector Stuff: 272 Single Word DMA: 0 Multi Word DMA: 1031



SMART ATTRIBUTES:

ID Description Raw Value Status Value Worst Threshold

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Raw Read Error Rate 0 OK 100 253 6

3 Spin Up Time 0ms OK 99 97 0

4 Start/Stop Count 911 OK 100 100 20

5 Reallocated Sector Count 0 OK 100 100 36

7 Seek Error Rate 36256786 OK 75 60 30

9 Power On Time 1196 OK 99 99 0

A Spin Retry Count 0 OK 100 100 97

C Power Cycle Count 961 OK 100 100 20

BB (Unknown attribute) 4 OK 96 96 0

BD (Unknown attribute) 0 OK 100 100 0

BE (Unknown attribute) 774111278 OK 54 52 45

C2 Temperature 46 C OK 46 48 0

C3 (Unknown attribute) 192863190 OK 79 70 0

C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 OK 100 100 0

C6 Offline Scan Incorrect. Sector Count 0 OK 100 100 0

C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Count 0 OK 200 200 0

C8 Write Error Count 0 OK 100 253 0

CA Direct Address Mark Error Rate 0 OK 100 253 0


Sorry, the columns line up in my post, but not on the forum. But all checks out OK.

Since it's the easiest, should I just start by replacing the PSU? Is it also more likely to than the CPU fan to give me an intermittent problem, as opposed to a constant one? Any other suggestions?
 
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sneakers

sneakers

Middling experienced user
#4
I also just removed the exterior fan, ran SpeedFan after an hour, and the CPU registers 113F. Why would it be hotter (123 today) on bootup, or doesn't it matter?

Just found this in the manual for my new CPU fan:

The computer system may automatically shut down when booting the computer after the system monitoring program outputs a warning stating that the CPU fan is rotating slowly. In such a case, fully turn the Speed Control Knob in the clockwise direction before rebooting to disable the 'CPU Fan Detected' option in BIOS, or set the CPU fan's rotational speed to 1,350rpm or lower in the system monitoring program.

(Note) Some motherboards fail to boot if the rotational speed of the CPU fan is below a certain rpm. However, booting can be possible even at low fan rpm if the BIOS settings are updated. For more information on updating the BIOS, please refer to the website of the motherboard's manufacturer. There are motherboards which fail to detect the rpm while operating the cooler in Silent Mode, but this does not affect computing performance.



Does it matter that my fan speed is always set to the highest?
 
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Leoslocks

Leoslocks

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#5
The Bios monitoring setting should be lower that the speed of the CPU fan. You need the CPU fan to spin fast enough to satisfy the motherboard bios settings. Some motherboards fail to detect the rpm of certain fans. Does the fan have a three or four pin plug? Either of these should work as the motherboard should have a three pin header for the CPU fan to enable monitoring.
Try adjusting the bios settings to allow a lower CPU fan speed and "fully turn the Speed Control Knob in the clockwise direction" to make the fan spin fast. If that does not work, try the original fan and see if the problem goes away.
 
sneakers

sneakers

Middling experienced user
#6
The control knob is always fully turned up. "adjust the bios settings to allow a lower CPU fan speed" What would that setting be called in the BIOS?
 
Leoslocks

Leoslocks

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#7
Not familiar with that board or its bios but it could be found in the "Power" heading.
 
Shinma

Shinma

____________
#8
Dual-core, Intel Pentium D 830, 3.0GHz Socket 775
New Zalman CPU fan # 7000C-ALCU ...
Stated processor not listed as compatible at Zalman's website with stated heatsink.
CNPS7000C-AlCu rated for TDP maximum of 84 W.
Intel Pentium D 830 listed TDP: 130 W
 
sneakers

sneakers

Middling experienced user
#9
Stated processor not listed as compatible at Zalman's website with stated heatsink.
CNPS7000C-AlCu rated for TDP maximum of 84 W.
Intel Pentium D 830 listed TDP: 130 W
BTW--I misstated the heatsink size. It's 92mm. Just went to Zalman's site. I presume now that Pentium D and Celeron D are different?

What's TDP? This is a learning experience. So this means the heat sink is what? too small, not powerful enough?

Couldn't get it to boot at all last night. I'm on my other one. Do you think this is causing my problem? If so, why only twice in about 2 months since I bought the fan?

I bought it from EndPCNoise.com. In case I can get an exchange, is there another reasonable one (under $50) there that's compatible with my CPU?
 
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sneakers

sneakers

Middling experienced user
#11
Thanks, Midknyte. Much of it eludes me, but .I've gotten the gist of that article, SpeedFan shows that the temp still never goes above 123 F. Would this interfere with bootup or crash the comp, as it did last night?
 
Midknyte

Midknyte

Caffeine Fiend
#12
It's hard to say. It's possible that the CPU got damaged if you ran it under heavy load.

For under $50, you'll probably be looking at the Xigmatechs. S1284 or something similar. If that's too big, look at their 92mm offerings.
 
sneakers

sneakers

Middling experienced user
#13
The Bios monitoring setting should be lower that the speed of the CPU fan. You need the CPU fan to spin fast enough to satisfy the motherboard bios settings. Some motherboards fail to detect the rpm of certain fans. Does the fan have a three or four pin plug? Either of these should work as the motherboard should have a three pin header for the CPU fan to enable monitoring.
Try adjusting the bios settings to allow a lower CPU fan speed and "fully turn the Speed Control Knob in the clockwise direction" to make the fan spin fast. If that does not work, try the original fan and see if the problem goes away.
Fan has 3 pins. I'll try this and get back to you. Just now she booted up fine, the inconsistency of which drives me nuts. One of my original Q's was: If the PSU fan were defective, would it would it affect the temp of the CU significantly?
 

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