Keen ignoramus wants to learn.

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Devo

New Member
#1
I have just ordered a new system including the Athlon 800 TB. I had heard that AMD had "locked" the new athlons. From what I have read there is obviosly a way around this!!!

I have no shame in admittting that I ahven't much of a clue as to how do acheive this (my last foray into the desktop PC market was as long ago as when a P100 with 32Mb RAM was considered to be bloody good.
Anyone fancy spending some time teaching a keen ignoramus?
 
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GreyArea

New Member
#2
Yeah I could use some help too as I've ordered an MSI-6337 Mobo and I need to know which is the best pentium 3 to overclock ? -

From what I can gather though "locked" just means that the internal multiplier on the chip itself is locked i.e for a 750 chip the bus frequency is 100Mhz and the multiplier on the chip is 7.5 giving 750Mhz.

In theory it's possible to increase the bus frequency (FSB) on some motherboards giving a speed increase on the chip - to use the above example increasing the bus speed to 120Mhz would give a 120x7.5 or 900Mhz chip speed.

In practice it's only possible to overclock the bus frequency to a certain amount before the chip overheats, can't keep-up, or some other component can't take the increased bus frequency.

Hope this helps !
(I hope that this information is correct ? - if not please will those who know better correct me !
)
 
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Devo

New Member
#3
Thanks for that.Maybe I should have done some more research into which motherboard to opt for. The only thing I know is that it is a QDI (I think that's right) and it is "highly upgradable" (according to the sales person).

Another basic question, if I may. What is the point of overclocking (is the difference that noticeable?) At what stage are you putting any components at risk (or is it too late by the time you realise!!)?

Is it worth overclocking for games' sake when I'm getting a GeForce2 GTS 64 Mb (can't wait; my last card was a Trident 1Mb!!!)?
 
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GreyArea

New Member
#4
1) The point of overclocking is that you can get a 1Ghz processor for the price of a 800Mhz one !

2) I think that for games such as Quake3 and others of a similar nature that the speed of the CPU makes quite a difference even with an excellent graphics card as a lot of processing is still done by the CPU. - This is my personal opinion only I don't have any test data yet to back it up !

3) The only thing I belive is at risk is the CPU itself as running at a higher speed can cause the CPU to fail earlier than normal - a good cooling unit can help with this.

4) The other components should not be damaged by a high bus frequency - they just might not work at that frequency.

5) Check out some of the articles on overclocking on the HardwareCentral website.

Once again I think this information is correct but you should check incase I've made a stupid mistake somewhere !!
 
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Devo

New Member
#5
Cheers.

I'll be back next week hopefully to learn morewhen my new system arrives and I've had a chance to check out the motherboard specs.
 
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S_Klass

New Member
#6
1) Actually the point of overclocking is not to obtain a faster processor per se. The main reason to overclock is to gain the performance boost in overclocking your video, disk I/O subsystem and memory (traditionally the bottlenecks in system performance).

2) At high resolutions in games like Q3 in higher quality modes, the video card is the limiting factor, not the processor.

3 & 4) Overclocking while relatively safe when not overdone (<= 133MHz FSB) can cause physical damage to HDDs and corrupt data beyond recovery if you overclock in the extreme sense (>=150 MHz FSB).

5) Drop by the darkside for more info.


p.s. QDI is a decent OEM-quality mobo, but it certainly is not outstanding in any way shape or form. You'll be happier with a Soyo, AsusTeK, Abit or MSi mobo.

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-=S_Klass=- I tweak... therefore I am.
 
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S_Klass

New Member
#7
Before I forget, welcome to HWC.


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-=S_Klass=- I tweak... therefore I am.
 
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Devo

New Member
#8
Thanks for the welcome.

Is there much difference in price between the QDI and the other makes you mentioned?

I presume the difference in motherboards is that the makes you mentioned support higher FSB speeds and more RAM??

I will drop by the site you mentioned but one more question, if I may:

The GeForce2 card I am getting apparently comes overclocked as standard (although with a utility to reduce the seetings to normal). Does this mean that the vc will have a shorter life (would this be the case with a CPU also?)?
 
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S_Klass

New Member
#9
How much is the QDI mobo you are getting? Is it a BX440 board? A i815? A i810e? A VIA Apollo Pro 133A. Typically the difference between the QDI and the boards I've mentioned are the overclocking potential and value-added features. Expect to pay about $15 - $25 extra for those perks, well worth it if you are a tweaker.


If you are getting a GeForce II Ultra, those are spec-ed with premium memory (faster RAMDAC & memory clock speed) that can run at faster then normal settings without problems. What card are you getting?

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-=S_Klass=- I tweak... therefore I am.
 
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Devo

New Member
#10
Belive it or not I'm not sure which mobo it is!!! It says QDIK7 on the invoice and I think that this might be in reference to the KinetZ 7A model which is a VIA KT-133.

The card is a GeForce II GTS 64Mb.
 
grover

grover

Ex pert
#11
Well, your graphics card is fast enough that your CPU just *might* be the bottleneck to higher performance, but probably not unless you run your games at less than 1024x768- then you're talking about 180fps instead of 200.
In most systems, the vid card can't keep up. If you look at benchmarks with different cards on 1 system, frame rates for 640x480 and 800x600 are typically identical because the fps are limited as to how fast the PC can calculate what's going on. However, at higher resolutions (like 1600x1200), where the frame rate is lower and the video card is the limit, the processor can be 500MHz or 1GHz and the fps will remain exactly the same. Unless you play games at greater than 1280x1024 resolution, any difference in frame rate will be higher than the refresh rate of your monitor and you'll never even notice it. Applications like SETI, or compiling software or encoding Divx are about the only place you'll ever see the difference between your Athlon 800 and anything faster- you've got a speed-demon right out of the box! Overclocking to 1 gig will give you bragging rights, but it won't perform much differently than 800MHz.

When you overclock your front-side-bus (FSB) you're speeding up the CPU clock, the RAM, and any PCI and AGP cards you have. So, if you run your Athlon800 at a 110MHz FSB, you'll get a 10% gain accross the board- the proc will be 880MHz, and the GeForce2 will be running 10% faster, too. (Of course, if any 1 component can't handle running 10% faster, you have to slow everything back down.) If you look in bios, there is usually a setting there for FSB. Try changing it in small increments until your computer hangs up on bootup/won't start, then back it up to the last safe spot. If there isn't an option in bios, look in your motherboard manual for jumper settings to change on the board.

Overclocking alone rarely damages anything and most overclocked PCs easily remain stable and dependable until the next upgrade. Usually the damage is caused by overvoltage or overheating induced by extreme overclocking. By increasing the voltages going to your processor and motherboard, it's often possible to coax more speed out of it than was possible at the lower voltage. Both increased speed and increased voltage will cause your computer to run hotter, necessitating greater cooling ability. So, put on a larger heatsink/fan and throw a few extra fans in your case, and you should be good for 10-15%, no problem!

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Asus A7V
Duron [email protected]@1.80V

[This message has been edited by grover (edited 09-15-2000).]
 
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GreyArea

New Member
#12
Thanks for the corrections
! Maybe you can helpme with a small problem I have - which PIII processor is the best for overclocking 700,733, or 750 ? and what sort of Speeds do you think it's possible to reach - I know this depends the individual chip and motherboard but what sort of percentage gains can you get on average ??
 
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S_Klass

New Member
#13
The PIII 700MHz probably has the best bang for the buck right now. With a good mix of parts you can hit 1GHz (143MHz FSB) fairly consistantly. But that's juz MHO.




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-=S_Klass=- I tweak... therefore I am.
 
Luds

Luds

Kung Fu Master
#14
don't get a P733...! it's running at 133 FSB already, leaving you very little room to increase the FSB. A nice ideal overclock would be to take a P700/100 and crank up the FSB to get 933/133 on an 815 board. That way you keep your AGP and PCI components in spec with increased memory bandwidth and a faster processor.

Devo,

Your T-bird can be "unlocked" if it still has the multiplier pins on the bottom(sometihng AMD is removing on currently manufactered processors). This way, if you get a motherboard that supports multiplier adjustment you can just change the multiplier without messing with the FSB too much. This is even more ideal on the AMD side as unlike the BX or i815 chipsets that run stable at speeds of 150+ mhz, the Via KT-133 chipset isn't stable much above 110.
 
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Devo

New Member
#15
Thank you both for some interesting stuff. It seems to me that overclocking my AMD800 TB would only be in the interests of curiosity and learning a bit more about the hardware...which are good reasons in themselves!

I think I am going to "make do" with what I have and if I feel the need for tweaking (which I'm sure will not be long) then I should get hold of a sexier mobo.

Unlocking the CPU? I will do some research!!
 
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Turkka

New Member
#16
"BX or i815 chipsets that run stable at speeds of 150+ mhz, the Via KT-133 chipset isn't stable much above 110." -Luds


That´s what I´ve been hearing too. I am very eager to get Athlon that would run higher FSB. Because of the new 150Mhz memory available I wished to get Athlon 100Mhz FSB to run 133 or more. But it seems quite impossible.
Would there be even change to this with DDR SDRAM memory? I would like to know. Then I might wait for that before new equipment.
 

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