Analog VS Digital Tuners and HDTV

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fgecme

New Member
#1
I have had a discussion with my wife attempting to explain to her an article she read in the local newspaper.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
We have the following scenario:
Rooftop antenna attached to VCR box and then to the TV, (Built in 1999)
I tried to tell her, our TV has a digital tuner as one can use the remote control to switch channels and adjust volume as well as put a menu on the screen for other options. This should determine if there is a digital or analog tuner within the machine. An analog TV has the knob in the front where one has to twist the knob to get a station. Even though there is a digital tuner inside the TV, it does not mean that it can receive the new digital HD TV channels. The antenna intercepts the analog TV signal, sends an analog signal to the digital tuner which is built to convert the analog signal to video format. The new digital signal should be intercepted by the rooftop or rabbit ear antenna but has to be converted via a converter box, (available in stores with the government $40.00 discount coupon), to analog before the digital tuner can demodulate it to change it to a video signal.
She thinks that because we have an outside antenna that means the TV is analog. But, since we have a digital tuner, that means, it is ready for the new HDTV signal. I tried to explain as I have written above but she would rather have a second opinion.
 
DanceMan

DanceMan

Procrastinating Member
#3
The "digital" tuner in the tv, unless it's very recent and hdtv compatible (not the same thing as digital broadcast capable but likely to include it) is probably analagous to a digital tuner on an FM receiver, using a quartz oscillator and a digital display in the circuitry to tune an analog signal.
The antenna only means it's a radio (wireless) signal. Don't XM and Sirius need antennas for digital radio? Don't routers and wireless cards need antennas for digital computer signals?
 
Justintime

Justintime

Moderator
#4
Women and technology.. geez. Something from 1999 definetly won't meet the standards. Digital display, onscreen menus etc.. have been around for a looooooong time, 70s, early 80s? that by no means means the tv will pick up a digital signal.
 
A

alexBB

New Member
#5
I do believe your wife is right. This is why. Broadcasting via open air transmitters is an old technology and is on the way out. The trend is to phase it out and eventually make everyone having digital cable or DSL feed to their TV sets.

It is highly UNLIKELY IMHO that any TV broadcasters invested in digital signal transmitting over the open air. It may also be prohibitively expensive, although I am not sure about it. Also the open air broadcasting is mostly in rural areas and even in affluent suburbs people have DSL all over. Just the density of consumers in your area makes new technology impractical to introduce.

You can get down to the truth by analyzing your range of channels. If you are NOT able to view channels with "high" numbers like 200 and so (anything higher than perhaps 115 is not available to you) then all you get is ALL analogue.

Now this is what happens with your TV. The US government mandated years ago to switch to digital HDTV standard. In lueu of that the TV set makers designed digital TVs with high quality resolution capable of receiving analogue signals from your roof antenna. The anlogue signals are converted into digital representation (nost likely with a converter box, or perhap internally, in more expensive sets) and you see the "digital" picture (sort of). Digital is supposed to be of much higher quality but it is unclear if this type of conversion really improves it. It is sort of a patchup, temporary at best.

The other guy who made a disparaging remark about women in technology should bite his tongue. It is true that majority of women want to have nothing to do with it, including my wife, however, my daughter-in-law controls everything computer and software and hardware wise in my son's household and she does it superbly. Until about 5 years ago I used her advice all the time.

My secretary's daughter-in-law does pretty much the same as far as I can tell. Her son does not have a clue. My Canon camera broke down and I was about to throw it out. She took it to her daughter in law. The next day she came back with the news: there is a recall on this model with the same defect--the girl figured it all out by going to the Canon's website. My woman filled an online form, called the company and lo and behold I got a new camera without lifting a finger.

That guy's remark is stupid.
 
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DanceMan

DanceMan

Procrastinating Member
#6
I'm still with fgcme. From what I've read the stations still must broadcast over the air, in digital.

And I agree, there are some women who are very technically adept. But they are far from even 50%, so the stereotype still has truth.
 
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alexBB

New Member
#7
The stations of course broadcast in analogue over the air but as far as the other part of your remark is concerned, there is nothing wrong with women not being technically adept. They have many other virues and the lack of understanding of technical matters ssould not be held agains them. And I am not coming from the postion of political correctness, just the opposite.

I actually prefer women who are not in technology:)
 
DanceMan

DanceMan

Procrastinating Member
#8
I'm pretty sure the digital tv signal will be broadcast over the air, even if few people now would actually receive it that way. I would think it would be mandated by the license terms of the broadcast regulators.
The US has set the date for the changeover but I think Canada is still dithering. Or something. That will make it interesting considering we carry a good selection of US broadcast stations on our cable systems. Presumably the cable operators will have to do a D/A conversion for those channels until we change to digital.
 
krupted

krupted

New Member
#9
dd
lhjuh
alexBB said:
I do believe your wife is right. This is why. Broadcasting via open air transmitters is an old technology and is on the way out. The trend is to phase it out and eventually make everyone having digital cable or DSL feed to their TV sets.

It is highly UNLIKELY IMHO that any TV broadcasters invested in digital signal transmitting over the open air. It may also be prohibitively expensive, although I am not sure about it. Also the open air broadcasting is mostly in rural areas and even in affluent suburbs people have DSL all over. Just the density of consumers in your area makes new technology impractical to introduce.

You can get down to the truth by analyzing your range of channels. If you are NOT able to view channels with "high" numbers like 200 and so (anything higher than perhaps 115 is not available to you) then all you get is ALL analogue.

Now this is what happens with your TV. The US government mandated years ago to switch to digital HDTV standard. In lueu of that the TV set makers designed digital TVs with high quality resolution capable of receiving analogue signals from your roof antenna. The anlogue signals are converted into digital representation (nost likely with a converter box, or perhap internally, in more expensive sets) and you see the "digital" picture (sort of). Digital is supposed to be of much higher quality but it is unclear if this type of conversion really improves it. It is sort of a patchup, temporary at best.

The other guy who made a disparaging remark about women in technology should bite his tongue. It is true that majority of women want to have nothing to do with it, including my wife, however, my daughter-in-law controls everything computer and software and hardware wise in my son's household and she does it superbly. Until about 5 years ago I used her advice all the time.

My secretary's daughter-in-law does pretty much the same as far as I can tell. Her son does not have a clue. My Canon camera broke down and I was about to throw it out. She took it to her daughter in law. The next day she came back with the news: there is a recall on this model with the same defect--the girl figured it all out by going to the Canon's website. My woman filled an online form, called the company and lo and behold I got a new camera without lifting a finger.

That guy's remark is stupid.

first of all, justintime can kick your ***... and second- most (if not all) high def tv's do NOT have an analog tuner in them. they cannot recieve regular Over The Air broadcasts, only ATSC ones. and you could not be more wrong about your theory with broadcast television. it is here to stay- on the day you die your tv will still be able to get a signal through rabbit ears and well beyond that too. ANALOG BROADCASTS ARE DEAD. DIGITAL ONES HAVE REPLACED IT. do some research (even if its wikisearch) before you start calling well-known members of this site as wrong.
 
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alexBB

New Member
#10
The roof TV dipole antennas receive signal in ANALOGUE. Satellite dishes on the rooftops of large buildings as well as in some suburban backyards get high frequency, almost microwave signals which is of course digital. I did not have those in mind when I posted my first post. It must be presumed of course that even if that signal goes thru the air it is digital. It is transmitted via a satellite, sometimes directly to the dish of the customer or via a landbased retransmittter which in turn sends a microwave beam to local consumers. I am not sure that the latter design is actually used outside of some indusrtial settings. As a variant one can see a large dish receiving a satelliet signal and sending it to locals via a DSL or cable.

My understanding of the OP post was that he was talking about old-fashioned dipole antenna positioned on his rooftop.

That "crupted" or "corrupted" individual is a low life brute because it is not a way to express your point as he does--breaking into a string of insults. The whole idea of what he wanted to say got lost in the sewage.

Anyhow, Justintime's remark about women was a trite, belongs in a bar after midnight when the customers are already quite electrified (or stupified) and was STUPID. Not even a speck of intelligence could be attributed to it.

And Mr. Krupp's defense is.... well. I won't continue.

Good night.
 
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alexBB

New Member
#11
She thinks that because we have an outside antenna that means the TV is analog. But, since we have a digital tuner, that means, it is ready for the new HDTV signal. I tried to explain as I have written above but she would rather have a second opinion.

Well, I just reread your post. I do agree with you: your TV is digital. I simply was not attentive. In this sense your wife is wrong. The converter is what makes your digital TV able to receive analogue signals.

I somehow thought that the issue was if the transmission via the air was analogue or digital. It is analogue for sure.

Sorry for misunderstanding. Tell your wife that I was wrong assuring her that you were wrong:)
 
edhe62

edhe62

New Member
#12
On February 17, 2009, federal law requires that all full-power television broadcast stations stop broadcasting in analog format and broadcast only in digital format. Here’s what these requirements will mean for you and your television viewing.
The good old US FCC gives the above info. It looks like the entire broadcast will be digital, not analog converted at the box as suggested above. This page also has a great deal of info to assist you in finding out whether you do have a degital tuner in your set or not.

It looks like it may take some homework. :)
 
DanceMan

DanceMan

Procrastinating Member
#13
From the FCC page edhe62 linked:

Consumers who receive only free over-the-air television may view digital programming through a TV set with a built-in digital tuner (integrated DTV) or a digital-ready monitor with a separate digital tuner set-top box. (Both of these digital television types are referred to as a DTV). The only additional equipment required to view over-the-air digital programming with a DTV is a regular antenna, either on your roof or a smaller version on your TV such as “rabbit ears.”
 
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alexBB

New Member
#14
DanceMan just confirmed what I've been saying all along. Over the open air broadcast television aimed at dipole antennas are still and always be ANALOGUE as long they continue to exist.

Some of the contributors to this thread expressed erroneously an opinion that it is impossible, that the analoge is dead, I quote: "ANALOG BROADCASTS ARE DEAD" by Krupted character, actually the most arrogant and most ignorant poster for this thread. Dipole antennas physically cannot be converted to digital broadcast. They are filters of lower frequencies. Digital is transmitted via much higher freqency electromagnetic radiation, almost microwave.

The day you drive thru a countryside and see not a single dipole antenna on the roofs you can call Krupted and (provided he won't pour a bedside pot of obesnities on you) tell him: buddy, you were right, look: the ANALOGUE HAS FINALLY DIED.

I doubt the US government and local politicians will do it soon. A lot of folks still are glued to their TV sets, thinking that they are receiving digital or whatnot but in reality getting a conversion.

Again, the conversion box next to the OP TV is a converter from ANALOGUE to DIGITAL since his expensive TV cannot swallow analogue.
 
edhe62

edhe62

New Member
#15
alexBB said:
DanceMan just confirmed what I've been saying all along. Over the open air broadcast television aimed at dipole antennas are still and always be ANALOGUE as long they continue to exist.
Then why the need for a digital tuner or a set-top box? If the signal is still analog, wouldn't a standard TV be able to tune it in? Will it be that a different antenna will be necessary also? I didn't see it on the FCC's info page but I may have missed it.
 
DanceMan

DanceMan

Procrastinating Member
#16
A special antenna generally is not needed to receive digital signals. You may have antenna issues, however, if your current antenna does not receive UHF signals (channels 14 and above) well, because most DTV stations are on UHF channels. In such a case, you may need a new antenna or to add a UHF section to your existing antenna system.
Consumers should then ensure that their televisions are set up to receive over-the-air programming (as distinguished from the signals of a paid provider such as cable or satellite TV service), and then tune to the over-the-air digital channels to see if they can receive the digital broadcast programming.
The fact that you can use a conventional antenna means only that the signals are in the same frequency band. If they were still analog, why would you need a new digital tuner?
 
edhe62

edhe62

New Member
#17
DanceMan said:
The fact that you can use a conventional antenna means only that the signals are in the same frequency band. If they were still analog, why would you need a new digital tuner?
My thoughts exactly. The only thing that the digital tuner does for you (very basically) is converts all of those 1's and 0's into a picture for you.
 
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alexBB

New Member
#18
Then why is the need for a digital tuner or a set-top box? If the signal is still analog, wouldn't a standard TV be able to tune it in? Will it be that a different antenna will be necessary also? I didn't see it on the FCC's info page but I may have missed it.

Because any "standard" TV set on the market today, I stress today cannot receive analogue. It is an old technology, it is on the way out and the US government is trying to wean people off of it.

It is far from easy. An alternative is rather expensive for many rural areas. A handred miles from a metropolis not in a subdivision but somewhere in the Ozarks and you will see no satellite dishes and no cable retransmitters. People may still be using old-fashioned dipole antennas on the roofs. I haven't been to such areas for a few years so I may be obsolete but I do believe that this is true. Completely phasing analogue out will make their modern digital TVs going blank because there is no DSL or cable or satellite dishes for them around. This is why they have converters sitting next to their TV sets.

In my previous post I tried to make this amendment that for some reason failed.

We switched to digital not so long ago, perhaps 10 years or so. We stuck with the analogue for complex reasons but mostly out of desire to not get sucked into TV culture we did not need. We had a simple (digital) TV set costing perhaps 50 bucks or less. We live in a storied condo and there is no way to put a dipole antenna on the roof. I recall that we rented a converter from some company I do not remember which cost us ridiculously 5 bucks a month. To get the signal I threw a piece of wire across the living room close to the window and it worked. There is no way to get digital with such a long dipole antenna ( actually it was a unipole, or perhaps I purchased a sort of room antenna, my memory fails me here ). It all ended when one day we invited a family younster to stay with us for a summer vacation. That was a trigger to purchase new technology and subscribe to a cable. The box was returned to the leasing agency. I wish I could recall their name. I am afraid that event drove them out of business. There were not too many such fools around.

I really have hard time handling this forum. For some queer reason I post double although it's been 3 years since I had my last alcoholic drink. And it is not the first time today. I always click every button only once but find at least two posts afterwards or even three. Then I have to delete them.
 
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5

54regcab

New Member
#20
A few thoughts from a TV repairman:

1: The current metal antennas on the roof will work just fine with digital signals. They are broadcast at the same frequencies as the current analog signals. This has been proven many times by the amount of people who use these antennas to get digital signals over the air.

2: All new TV's include analog AND digital tuners. The analog tuners are still used for people who have basic cable which is analog.

3: Broadcast TV will remain alive and well. There is a new wave of people who are just plain fed up with pay TV providers hiking rates and poor customer service. As long as advertisers pay local TV stations they will continue to broadcast.
 
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