AAAAARRRGGGHHH.... Still confused...

AMDnut

AMDnut

Small Form Factor Advisor
#1
... as to which video card to get.

Building a Shuttle XPC system, model SN45G w/Barton 2500+ and various other tidbits. I just cannot decide which video card to get! I am not a serious gamer, but I do play the following a bit:

UT
Quake
Motocross Madness 2

Kids hammer the computer with simple games as well. Currently, my Radeon 9000 Pro runs everything fine for me. I would like the shuttle system to be better, but I have always tried to limit the video card expense to the low end. Seems the "SE" series of cards sucks for the most part. And I do not think the PNY GeForce FX5200 that I looked at today would be better than my R9000 Pro...

So what do I do guys? Here is whats important:

Quiet operation (XPC will be on desktop)
Fit into XPC
Low cost (as in $175 or below)
Low power consuption
Did I say low cost? ;)

Looking at the following cards, in order of cost, low cost to higher cost:

FX 5200 ($70 after rebate, cheap card!)
R9200
R9600XT
FX5700U


What else should I look at? Would like to stay with a well known company that stands behind its products as well.

What would you buy ?????
Opinions please!
 
Martin_89

Martin_89

New Member
#2
Radeon 9200 128MB

its passive cooled so quiet, will be slightly faster than you 9000 so id say thats fine.
 
AMDnut

AMDnut

Small Form Factor Advisor
#3
Martin_89 - That is what I am leaning towards right now. it is AGP 8X and has double the memory compared to my current R9000. Should do fine for my needs, and I will still have the excellent quality of ATI. That is a concern as I do image work as well...

Got some parts on order for the XPC from NewEgg. Hope the SN45G does OK as I have read of probs. I wanted the 200FSB speed though!
 
RecklessLeper

RecklessLeper

New Member
#4
Personally, I'd go for the R9600XT out of the list, as I usually go for the best I can afford. Obviously you'd get a bit more life out of one of these, as it's a lot faster than a 9200 let alone a 9000.
 
Martin_89

Martin_89

New Member
#5
na id go for the 9200 because of noise and then when your having problems with it upgrade to a 9600Xt which will be at the price that a 9600XT is now! its like buying a barton 2500 for word processing if you dont need the power dont play for it!! lol

the shuttle should be great i was going to get one for my birthday in 9 days but i think im just going to wait till the athlon64 comes down in price and ill build one around that.
 
RecklessLeper

RecklessLeper

New Member
#6
Originally posted by Martin_89
na id go for the 9200 because of noise...
well, if it's anything like my 9800 Pro, you'd wonder if it had a fan on at all! :)
 
AMDnut

AMDnut

Small Form Factor Advisor
#8
See, this is my reason for staying low cost....

I will be building another XPC this time next year, and it will be based on the A64 chip and board. This is to get me by until A64 is cheaper. I do a new system every 10-12 months so by then, the hotter video cards will be cheaper.....

The 9600 is tempting.... especially at $105.00 for the Saphire. Do they really make good cards? Maybe I will stretch it and go for the 9600 that MuFu linked to as it is passively cooled as well which would be quiet...


its like buying a barton 2500 for word processing if you dont need the power dont pay for it!!
What is wrong with a Barton 2500+ for MS Word and Excel?!?!? ;) I want that spreadsheet to "fly" open! :D
 
O

ol' man

workin fingas to the bone
#9
I know people that are running the 9700 in those systems and it is not loud at all.
 
MuFu

MuFu

Moderator
#10
Originally posted by AMDnut
Do they really make good cards?
Yes. They actually make boards for ATi themselves.

Captain Amazing has a 9600XT in an SFF PC. Maybe he can post some feedback.

Originally posted by Martin_89
its passive cooled so quiet, will be slightly faster than you 9000...
No it won't, he has a 9000 Pro. It will probably be quite a bit slower.

MuFu.
 
Martin_89

Martin_89

New Member
#11
ohh a 9000PRO i never noticed sorry!

well the cards fans cant be that noisy im just going by my cards fan which is very! yup that saphire 9600PRO i was just looking at myself on ebuyer so it will be quiet and alot faster so id say go for it!
 
O

ol' man

workin fingas to the bone
#12
Sapphire Technology Limited - - SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon 9800SE AGP 8X 128MB DDR Video Card.
Details:
-RADEON 9800SE 128 SAPPHIRE ATI Radeon 9800SE AGP 8X w/DVI l TV-Out 128 mb DDR
Part - N82E16814102303
Updated - 1/23, 1:07 PM TotalCost $152
Price - $152
Shipping - Free FedEx Saver
Will Ship - Same - 1day

Can't buy? Newegg.com
Score 226 / 240 Feedbacks
800-390-1119
909-395-9046 La Puente , CA
Info ...
Winner of Bizrate Circle of Excellence Award 2001. PLATINUM PLUS Customer Satisfaction Rating at Resellerratings. Real-time inventory with 6500+ computer hardware & software. FAST shipping, rush order processing available. Order online 24/7 at Newegg.com.
Here you go. The 9800SE from the EGG for $152. With your budget it would be what I would get and I trust the EGG.
 
AMDnut

AMDnut

Small Form Factor Advisor
#13
Hmmmmm....... 9800SE seems nice, but is the 9600XT a bit faster?

Narrowed down to 9600XT or 9800SE now...
 
RDX

RDX

Proud H-Bomb owner
#14
I would still go with the 9600XT or a FX5900.

A stock 9600pro is quite a bit faster than a sapphire 9800se stock(about 30% faster on average). If you are successful in unlocking the sapphire card, its performance moves up significantly; but it's still 5-10% behind the 9600 pro. I know it still can be overclocked, but I don't think it can be overclocked nearly enough to catch an overclocked 9800xt for the same price.
 
O

ol' man

workin fingas to the bone
#15
RDX,

If you are successful in unlocking the sapphire card, its performance moves up significantly; but it's still 5-10% behind the 9600 pro
You are saying a 9800np or (9800se->9500 pro) is slower than a 9600pro?

What?

A R350 core OC's higher than the r300 core so a 8 pipe r350 core @ 400+ MHz would take a dump all over a 9600 OC'd.
 
RDX

RDX

Proud H-Bomb owner
#16
I wished the sapphire 9800se when unlocked performed like a 9800 NP.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/sapphire-4.html

There aren't too many reveiws that compare 9800se performance results, but this one does a decent job of comparing quite a few cards. Notice that the powercolor 9800se gold goes from about a 9600pro performance level to a 9800pro level when unlocked. (It's actually a little slower than the 9800pro due to slightly less aggressive timings.) The sapphire 9800se doesn't get such a big boost from being unlocked though. It would take an incredible amount of overclocking for an unlocked sapphire 9800se to perform above a 9600xt level.
 
O

ol' man

workin fingas to the bone
#17
Well something didn't get done right cause they show a 9500pro @ default 270/270 speeds besting a default 9600pro it would appear almost all of the time. That sappire would mod to a 9500pro but instead with like 325MHz default core speed which would destroy a 9600pro @ default speeds.

Some one didn't either do the mod right or they got graphs switched around. Something doesn't look right at all. I have the same PCB with my 9500 here



which is identical to that sapphire but I only have the lower OC'n r300 core. My 3dmark2k1 SE scores go up 2k after the mod @ 270MHZ.
 
RDX

RDX

Proud H-Bomb owner
#18
I also thought that unlocking the 4 extra pipelines would give a bigger boost than it shows there for the 9800se. I remember reading a few other reviews that support that article's results however. I'll try to dig them up and post em here tomorrow. I need to study for a ochem test tonight.
 
O

ol' man

workin fingas to the bone
#19
The other reviews I have seen have shown the 9500np "I" line memory to 9500pro benchmarks.
 
RDX

RDX

Proud H-Bomb owner
#20
I couldn't find any reviews that directly compared the unlocked sapphire 9800se to the 9500pro. Most sites that reviewed the 9800se, reviewed cards based on the 256-bit L memory conifguration.

This review compares an unlocked 256 bit AIW 9800se to several other cards. The Hercules 9800se AIW has the same specs as the powercolor 9800se gold, so no surprises there.

This article attempted to compare an unlocked sapphire radeon 9800se card with an unlocked powercolor 256 bit 9800se. Unfortunetly, only the powercolor card was successfully unlocked.

This review compares a number of different cards, including a 128bit 9800se and a 9500np. They clocked the 9500np to the exact same speed as the 9800se (325/540). The performance difference between the two was negligible. It's pretty clear that there is virtually no difference between the 9500np and a 128bit 9800se (other than the later is based on the R350 core). So why doesn't the unlocked 128 bit 9800se perform like a 9500pro, or even better? Either something is holding these cards back; or as you suggested, they totally screwed up the benchmarking in the digit-life.com review.