Topic: Would 3DFX like to comment on this then??
BladeRunner 7/28/2000 05:35
Dear tech support,
As a potential customer of the V5 6000 (if it gets released in the UK before it is out of date) there is an issue that needs to be investigated and addressed. Please check these links:-
with regard to very poor heatsink fitting or quality control. Also when are ALL graphics card makers going to learn Gluing heatsinks on is a very poor solution, removable heatsinks with thermal paste is the correct, (and only way), it should be done on such expensive products as the V5.
Avonnied 7/28/2000 08:30
I completely agree with you there..
even though i love the voodoo5 the technique used to attach the heatsinks is pretty crappy at best.
to me it looksl ike they tried to cut a corner to increase their profits. you only have to pay the sweatshop working a penny a heatsink rather than 2. :-)
what is ironic is the holes are actually there in the PCB for a fashioning system similar to other videocard heatsinks ( even the voodoo3 ).. come to think of it they sould have just used 2 v3 heatsinks and stuck a fan on there!!!.
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Lordkileraunt 7/28/2000 09:18 Ok, what I would like to know, is how do i remove the original heat sink that comes with the v5. They never thought that we might modify it a little bit? What if i wanna put a better heat sink on it, including a fan over that heat sink, and one on the opposite side of the board. As of right now, there is no way to do that. Do they just pop off or something. Cause i think if i pry on that damn thing it's gonna break.
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slick50 7/28/2000 09:51 I used a samll screw driver to rmove mine, A little scary put them come reall good, then i used a single edge razor blade to gently scrape the glue off witch takes a while to do. Then i put paste all over the chip except 4 cornes, just leave enough room for 2 drops of super glue on each corner work real nice for me
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blammo 7/28/2000 11:30 Just buy the tennmax fans. It's worth the $40, and it makes a HUGE diff in stability / temp of the card. Should be manditory.
Jarrod 7/28/2000 12:55
I personally have a Voodoo5 5500 in my machine here at work. I've been using it for about 2 months now.
I have no problems with overheating. I have no problems with lockups.
If you want to put a different heatsink/fan combo on the card you're more than welcome too, the only catch is that in doing so (removing the original heatsink/fan) you will VOID your LIFETIME warranty. So that's something to think about.
Take care! :O)
This post was edited by an administrator
BladeRunner 7/28/2000 14:11
Thanks for the reply but you failed to answer my original question. I have no intention of removing the heatsinks on a V5 6000, and no intention in purchasing one UNLESS 3DFX do something about this bodge way of fixing the heatsinks on what will be a £400 PLUS product in the UK.
Splodging a great lump of glue ramdomly near the Chip and throwing a heatsink at from the other side of the factory is just plain poor design application or shoddy workmanship.
I'am quite serious about wanting this card, although it's continued delay is making it less desireable by the day, and as a possible customer this issues needs to be admitted to and addressed.
Jarrod 7/28/2000 14:24
Hi BladeRunner, actually I thought I did answer your question...??
I understand that because of this *report* from that website you believe that the heatsink we use is shoddy, I can't change your opinion, but I can tell you that there are *lots* of people using the card (myself included) who are not having any type of problems with heat, etc.
It's actually kind of humorous the way you describe it: "throwing a heatsink from the other side of the factory"...
Look, please, I would merely ask you to lighten up a little bit and not take such a report from a random website so seriously.
If in fact you purchased a Voodoo5 6000 and it did in fact have a defective heatsink (maybe a 2-5% chance that that would happen, probably lower) then you would of course take advantage of our very generous warranty program to replace it.
We have the best warranties in the business. We have toll-free technical support in the US (unfortunately doesn't apply to you, I wish it did), we have email support in virtually all the major languages in the world.
I think that as a company we really do have a lot to offer you in a 3D accelerated video card. I would hope that after your purchase you will feel the same way.
mark.gulliver 7/28/2000 15:08
I assume that you are aware that the "glue" you mention is thermal exopy, which has identical thermal conductivity to silicon thermal paste - you know, the stuff most people replace the "glue" with?
BladeRunner 7/28/2000 17:10
Firstly I was trying to be a bit humourous, but I am English so I appoligise if It came across the wrong way. We have a strange sense of humour over here you know. I was just trying to highlight the way the glue has been applied and how thick. Poor by any standards.
This is not some random website thing I've found, I moderate and help on Hardware Central, (video cards section), and have been quite involved with the Geforce and it's many issues. This V5 issue has been cropping up recently which makes sense as the cards are getting some burn in time now.
I can also tell you from experiance that Thermal epoxy will not transfer heat as efficiently as paste, although it will do a reasonable job if applied sparingly (thinly) and correctly.
This V5 problem is from "users" and regardless of percentage needs to be resolved on a hot .25 micron chipset card.
I'm not flaming the V5 6000 as I will get one, I'm just not keen on the glue solution for the reasons stated, even less so when poor application has lead to these problems for owners. It also matters not how good your back up customer service is, these issues should not be present in the design or application. This was my main complaint with the original Geforce cards, should have done all the beta testing in the labs and as such they would have realised the glued heatsink, (Creative CLAP, but others were as bad), was not up to the job, I eventually had a ICE 71 peltier with a Alpha P3125 heatsink on it to see if that would stop the damn GPU from "Glowing"
check this thread out for details and my thoughts on this problem and please don't bury your heads in the sand over this.
SharkFood 7/28/2000 17:49
I wont bury my head in the sand- but instead call it exactly how I see it.
You guys are responding to someone that claims:
>>"I wonder if this could be the reason my (very expensive)Voodoo 5500 overheats in 60 seconds flat?"<<
>>"The card has not been overclocked and it was unstable from day one."<<
If this were indeed the case, then that guy was a fool not to return his card- but instead void the warranty and start prying heatsinks and fans off it.
I know of NOBODY that has heat related problems on their V5 running at stock speed. The highest majority of us can run the card as high as 174-176mhz with NO problems on a properly ventilated, case-on PC. This is using the stock heatsinks/fans as shipped on the board. BOTH styles (older ram/fan design and the newer fans too).
Like 4x4 posted there, it's quite simple really-
>>"It's common knowledge that if you're going to over-clock any card past it's default settings that cooling is the first thing to upgrade. "<<
It IS common knowledge.
And if someone is having problems with the card from day 1 running stock speed (highly unlikely), and "it overheats in 60 seconds flat" (even more unlikely) there is obviously something wrong with THEIR particular card.. I'd also doubt someone's first natural inclination after strapping a $300 US card in their box and having it overheat would be "Let's start prying hardware apart!" but instead "Let's march back and return this sucker for one that works!"
It's REALLY, REALLY silly. I've closely inspected my own, and a few other V5's. They all look good. They have a bit of thermal epoxy and the fans aren't always *perfectly* straight on the chips, but they suffice to do the job- and 166mhz is NO stretch for them regardless. Heck, 174mhz is no stretch either- provided it's in a case with a FAN.
computerjack 7/28/2000 17:51
I think you need to get a couple of things into perspective. Firstly modern 3D video cards are mass produced products, it's not one guy in his shed fitting these heatsinks on by hand. I am also British and have a 'British' sense of humour but I think that you must have missed the boat somewhat if you think that any company is going to court bad press for the want of 2p's worth of thermal glue !
OK, there are profit margins here and I remember my original problem with the Voodoo3, what we are talking about here is overclocking ! The only reason you would need to replace the existing heatsink and fan is if you want to overclock ! That's fine but you can't expext any manufacturer to build in extra safety for the fact that customers are going to use their prosuct improperly ! If you're going to overclock then sort it out and get a better heatsink/fan combo ! Lets face it, if you need that much performance then you'll be selling your card in 6 months for the next best thing anyway!
Let's keep things in perspective !
itsfun2bme 7/28/2000 20:10
just my 2 cents worth here. My first card locked up over heated and did crazy stuff. I returned it. My second card locked up over heated did crazy stuff. I came here. What I found was that my problem was a mixture of drivers and bios and god only remembers what else. The point is after working with tech support emailing them and everything else I have been a month now without any probs. I have all my programs running from my old system now and no crashes no lockups and most importantly NO OVERHEATING. My system is running smoother now than it did with my voodoo 3 and thanks to winbench 2000 i have everythingtweaked for maximum performance however I must say that I do not nor will I overclock the card, it isn't necessary and as a customer I don't want to void my warranty.
BladeRunner 7/29/2000 03:18
I think IQ's have dropped sharply around here as you all asume all I want to do is O/C this thing if I buy it. As an mechanic (motorsport), It just makes me shudder when I see a well designed (million dollar) product possibly undermined by the sake of poor heatsink fitting either because of the application or poor quality control.
Just look at the pictures, I doesn't matter if it runs ok at first, or for you, but lack of complete heatsink contact because the thermal compound is poorly applied, or too thick is unaceptable in a product of this expense from a company such as 3DFX, regardless of whether it is mass produced or not.
Just stating that it doesn't matter and "my card is ok" doesn't change the fact that none should have left the factory like that.
They don't have to stop using the "glue" (but must accept it's not the profesional way to do it). The heatsink needs to be attached in such a way that it is level and has full contact with the chipset, again it is not rocket science.
I'm sure this is the design reason for fitting a heatsink to it in the first place, all I'm saying is if they want my £400 + for a 6000 I need to know they accept "some 5500's" are uncceptable in this area and they will make sure the application or quality control is sorted before the 6000 is produced, after all that has Twice the chance of one poorly glued heasink problem.