Next Generation Console wars
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Thread: Next Generation Console wars

  1. #1
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    Next Generation Console wars

    I've been reading some interesting things about the Wii vs PS3 vs XB360 the last few days at Xbit. Not trying to sponsor them, but they seem to have all the news on the subject right now.

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime...117123243.html

    The PS3 appears to be readily available in many stores already, suggesting that demand is fairly low. After reading that, I pity those that spent $1000-2000 for a PS3 less than a month ago. It appears that you can get one for retail today if you shop around a bit.

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime...116154134.html

    Gabe Newell, the chief of Valve Software – the company that developed such popular game series as Counter Strike and Half-Life, has called the PlayStation 3 game console a “disaster” in an interview and called Sony to remake it. Mr. Newell believes that Nintendo Wii will win the battle of new-gen consoles, though, it is unclear whether games for Wii will ever emerge from Valve.

    “The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think. It’s really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted. I’d say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a ‘do over’. Just say, ‘This was a horrible disaster and we’re sorry and we’re going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it’,” Mr. Newell is reported to have said in an interview with Game Informer Magazine.
    Ouch. Those are very harsh comments coming from Valve. It's one thing to say it's hard to develop for, but to say it's a disaster is pretty bold. Valve is a fairly large player in gaming, so I wonder how much of an impact this will have on other developers? I find it very interesting how they like Wii the most, especially considering their plans to make their gaming engines multithreaded.

    Carmack seems to have good things to say about the XB360, though:

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...115233110.html

    This is not the first time when Mr. Carmack takes Microsoft Xbox 360 side, as it is easier to develop new games for the consoles....The lead programmer of id Software called Xbox 360’s more direct approach “refreshing” and even praised Microsoft’s development environment “as easily the best of any of the consoles, thanks to the company's background as a software provider”.

    “I especially like the work I’m doing on the [Xbox] 360, and it’s probably the best graphics API as far as a sensibly designed thing that I’ve worked with,” he said.
    Definitely interesting to see how this round of consoles is playing out. Nintendo and MS seem to be doing okay, but Sony can't really catch a break. They've even used the sluggish American economy as their reasoning for not sending more PS3s over at launch! That really makes no sense to me, since people were almost killing each other for them last November.

    Comments?
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  2. #2
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    sony is too proprietary. M$ is too, but their stuff is like 80% of the market, so everyone is used to it. they said years ago, the XNA engine would bridge the gap between the windows pc and consoles, and apparently thats exactly what happened. i never doubted M$ at any point when they entered the console world, i knew they would dominate eventually. nintendo sure did pull an ace out of their sleeve though, if not for them there wouldnt be anything but the 360 to consider.

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    btw, 8 days till the real vista release. i cant wait to see some dx10 games in the coming months....

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    Apparently you can buy a couple versions of Vista over at mwave.com already. As for MS succeeding, does that mean that Zune is next?
    Give what you cannot keep to gain what you cannot lose.

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    i dont know about the zune. really only because ipod is a household name now. much like the apple OS being probably better then windows, but windows is a household name... it will be interesting though, the zune seems like better hardware. it could entirely depend on what they do with the software

  6. #6
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    Well, consider that Playstation has also been a household name for a long time. The first Xbox was only moderately successful, but the 360 seems to be doing rather well already.
    Give what you cannot keep to gain what you cannot lose.

  7. #7
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    I just bought an Xbox 360 last week. I'm not quite enjoying it as much as I enjoyed my PS2 when I first got it. But then, I haven't used Xbox Live once and I'm not using the Media Center extender functionality yet. I bought Gears of War used and just can't get over the awkward way you have to throw grenades. I'm pretty impressed by it otherwise though.

    Backwards compatibility is slightly more than mediocre in terms of the numbers of original Xbox games it supports and in some cases the quality of the emulation. I bought Forza Motorsport since it was supposed to be better than Gran Turismo 4 (not quite IMO, 60fps is a must) and was disappointed that there is texture artifacting in every race (like a video card with a bad ram chip), but this is the worst instance of poor emulation that I've seen of the 6 Xbox games I bought. One of them- Pazer Dragoon Orta doesn't even work. They'd better remedy that since it was quite a good and popular game.

    I've got to say though, hacking my 360 was the easiest of any console I've ever done.

    I've really got no interest in getting a PS3, mainly because the backwards compatibility is in an even worse state than Xbox 360. If I can't play Guitar Hero on the PS3 using my PS2 guitar controllers, then there isn't any reason to buy one. In fact, I don't even know if Guitar Hero 1/2 even work at all on a PS3. The Wii on the other hand, I will have by this summer.
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  8. #8
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    My neighbor let me borrow GOW, and it's growing on me. I still can't wait to see how Halo 3 turns out. Between GOW and GRAW, I'm quite impressed with what the 360 can do. I never thought I'd adjust to playing FPS games with a controller, but I'm actually getting pretty good at it now.

    I've yet to try the video marketplace, but that time might come if they start adding shows like LOST and Heroes to the download list. Selection is pretty limited at this point, but I think that's more so they can ramp up the service without lots of issues. Overall, the 360 is a very nice gaming setup. I can't think of how much money it has saved me in the past year by keeping me from upgrading.
    Give what you cannot keep to gain what you cannot lose.

  9. #9
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    dont worry, the inner-workings of the 360 are finally arriving to the pc platform, by late this year there are going to be a whole slew of reasons to dump your life savings back into your pc

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    As one who works for a video game company let me put in my $0.02.

    The XBOX 360 is great because we can easily develop on it and change things on the fly without the console being too much of a hassle. However the console is made like a piece of **** and if left on for too long or simply being used too much it will break. One of the big issues is the video card will simply begin to fail and cause the system to reboot or freeze. Perhaps the retail versions are better pieces of equipment but our development consoles are breaking left and right...and by the way Microsoft moves at about the pace of a snail and I have 5 broken consoles on my desk that Microsoft swears they are sending replacements for...well its been weeks and no word.

    On to the PS3 which is an amazing piece of hardware and that is where the amazement ends. It might not break like the 360 does (at least so far), but try to develop on it and you will be entering a world of pain. Our game looks and plays a ton better on the 360 because its just easier to make the game for it. The PS3 is like a encrypted Rubik's cube to the 8th power. We have barely begun to unlock its potential. Not to mention setting up a PS3 you need to be a rocket scientist let alone trying to program on it. I am sure it has lots of hidden power...but guess what...give us a f*%$in map (or just a clue) or developers will start giving Sony the boot!

    Finally we have the Wii...strange name, but it sticks and that is a perfect marketing idea. It is easy to use for the user and requires little to no setup. I am sure developing on it is a challenge, but it can't be any harder than these PS3 behemoths. It also has amazing ways of approaching game design and allows the developer to really get in control of how the controller is going to be used. Yes the graphics are no better than what is currently our there on the PS2, XBOX and the like, but guess what it costs a fraction of the other guys and people are starting to get off their asses again....good job Nintendo you realized what was missing from the market and stabbed it right in the heart.

    I could go on, but I am sure your bored with my rants...feel free to leave me any comments and/or questions...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by krupted
    dont worry, the inner-workings of the 360 are finally arriving to the pc platform, by late this year there are going to be a whole slew of reasons to dump your life savings back into your pc
    I thought Xbox 360 was only DX9 based? So it's already behind the latest PC's?
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  12. #12
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    The XB360 GPU has unified shaders, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know exactly what the API is like for the 360, but DX10 supports unified shaders, so I'd imagine the 360's API is similar to DX10 in many ways. Also, it has 3 CPU cores, so it is still a little ahead of the "average" PC.
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  13. #13
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    I think the 360 API is technically still based in DX9, though I guess if it has 3 cores and unified shaders then it's probably a bit more capable than my Athlon 3000 and X800 XL

    I just dug out the magazine where I read about this. The question was put to Chris Donahue, one of DirectX's bosses in an interview as part of a DX10 feature in PC Format:

    PC Format: Is DX10 related to the API used for the XBox 360

    Chris Donahue: No, DX10 is a brand new set of API's. The XBox 360 uses DX9 graphics.

    So I guess that's fairly conclusive, but it must be a pretty heavily revised version of DX9 if it has unified shaders.
    Last edited by dannyboy27; January 23rd, 2007 at 09:06 AM.
    Windows 7 x64 Ultimate Edition, Gigabyte Z77-D3H, Ivy Bridge i7 3770, nVidia GTX480 1.5Gb, 16Gb Corsair 1600MHz, Creative X-Fi, Seagate 500Gb SATA II, DGM 23" Widescreen TFT

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyboy27
    I thought Xbox 360 was only DX9 based? So it's already behind the latest PC's?
    not from what i remember. the 360 was always dx10 exclusive. it was the first implimentation of XNA (which is like the blueprint to dx10)

    thats the reason i was so excited about the 360, and also the reason we havent seen any pc games lately- theyre all focusing on the 360, and when vista comes out the developers can finally start porting them over to the pc (which, now because they both use the same structure, the port from console to pc or vice-versa is supposed to be almost transparent)

    at least thats what i remember, im no expert of course

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyboy27
    Chris Donahue: No, DX10 is a brand new set of API's. The XBox 360 uses DX9 graphics.

    So I guess that's fairly conclusive, but it must be a pretty heavily revised version of DX9 if it has unified shaders.
    im thinking its mostly dx9 hardware run with the early version of dx10. or the other way around, dx10 hardware with a patched-up modded version of dx9.... again i dont know im not smart on this subject


    edit- after a little digging, it seems the xbox does use an advanced dx9 api. its technically dx9, but it does much of the dx10 features, so its not plain dx9 interface. the gpu in the 360 is capable of dx10, but the rest of the hardware isnt quite enough (very strict hardware control in dx10).
    Last edited by krupted; January 23rd, 2007 at 02:59 PM.

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