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Thread: For the agnostic or athiest or anarchist

  1. #61
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    The big question is really what started the Universe?

    That is answered in Genesis 1: 1 - 31.
    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

    7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

    8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

    10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

    11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

    12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

    14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

    16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

    17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,


    18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

    19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

    20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

    23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

    24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

    25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth F6 upon the earth.

    29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

    30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, F8 I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

    31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

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  2. #62
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    jankerson, anarchists choose not to believe in a higher power. athiests believe no higher power exists at all. anarchy is more geared toward things like government and police, but the meaning is mostly the same.

    Also is it possible to believe god exists but not believe in him? just something to think about, i really dont even know the answer to that one

    edit- my whole intention when i started this thread was to have a discussion with people who would not talk about bible lyrics, genisis stuff or whatever that is. I wanted to discuss with thoughts other than the whole church thing. Im not trying to be rude rather just trying to get my point across again.
    Last edited by krupted; May 2nd, 2005 at 09:18 PM.

  3. #63
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    i know enough of that stuff to know its as crazy as terrorists thinking they will get to be with 72 virgins for eternity if they blow themselves up along with innocent bystandards

  4. #64
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    Your looking for an answer to this crazy trip you mentioned, try evolution while your here on earth and use the tools of science that we were given to decipher what it is. Of course our tools are still not good enough since we haven't moved well enough thru evolution which is a short time compared to the age of the universe or earth.

    Einstein read science fiction comics in a park for leisure but you have to figure he liked looking at things from another perspective, a philospher learns more if he reads what other races believed, whatever an idea can do to add to the question.

    I'm interested in the period from the ice age to the cradle of civilization cause to me something is missing in there. Recently there was an article about warding off alien abduction, usually its about being abducted but this article mentioned instead that they were warded off by the abductee saying much the same as you would in an exorcism "begone demon christ commands you" and the aliens left in fear, this by researchers with degrees whilst doing there research. Needless to say that threw me off, especially after finding a few more cases of using christ in this manner. So there's bad and good aliens, do they believe in god and or christ? Kinda kills the atheist thing if its true.

    I may not doubt that there were other races here on earth that could explain our crazy trip as you say.

    Its amazing to me that in all of the surrounding areas of the giza pyramid down the nile that not one mention of who built the pyramid even if on the backs of some egyptians is ever mentioned in the countless inscriptions, carvings etc. yet they speak of daily life while living around the pyramid. The only ones to make mention of the pyramid were the summerians but that was 10,000 yrs ago long before the egyptians if you get my point.

  5. #65
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    Originally posted by Richard R.
    maybe the thread should of been along the lines of ghost stories, mission impossible, or something, fairy tales, monkey to man, something else other than what it is, big bang theory, just something else, wow,,sorry to rain on your thread
    Do you still think that the sun revolves around the Earth ? (Opposite theory was considered heretical back in 1615 ) Or do you just take what you like from scientists and consider the rest as non sense ? What would they gain stating there was a big bang (hey men, this is a belgian theory ) or like Darwin saying elephants come from mamouths and men from monkeys ? Absurd science ?
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  6. #66
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    Originally posted by krupted
    jankerson, anarchists choose not to believe in a higher power. athiests believe no higher power exists at all. anarchy is more geared toward things like government and police, but the meaning is mostly the same.

    Also is it possible to believe god exists but not believe in him? just something to think about, i really dont even know the answer to that one

    edit- my whole intention when i started this thread was to have a discussion with people who would not talk about bible lyrics, genisis stuff or whatever that is. I wanted to discuss with thoughts other than the whole church thing. Im not trying to be rude rather just trying to get my point across again.

    Nobody has talked about Church here at all, it was never even brought up.

    But when there is talk about how the world started etc, then along with Science it would be logical to bring up God and the Bible (Old Testiment) in the discussion.

    That is if the topic in general is an OPEN MINDED disusssion. It has to be because this is a public forum where anyone from anywhere in the world can see it.

    my whole intention when i started this thread was to have a discussion with people who would not talk about bible lyrics, genisis stuff or whatever that is. I wanted to discuss with thoughts other than the whole church thing.

    That statement in general is very CLOSE MINDED, and nieve.

    To look at one side of a topic you have to look at all the differnt view points to get a clear picture of what is be stated or talked about.

    If all the view points are not looked at then it isn't a discussion, it's a rant.........

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  7. #67
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    Originally posted by Ponch
    Do you still think that the sun revolves around the Earth ? (Opposite theory was considered heretical back in 1615 ) Or do you just take what you like from scientists and consider the rest as non sense ? What would they gain stating there was a big bang (hey men, this is a belgian theory ) or like Darwin saying elephants come from mamouths and men from monkeys ? Absurd science ?

    I am sure nobody alive today believes the the Sun orbits the Earth or the World is Flat either.

    We as Humans are still in the learning process and haven't even scratched the surface of what Life is really.

    And in the learning process there are alot of different view points on just about any topic you can think of.

    Science has it's place and then so does the BIBLE.

    No we can't discount what Science says as it is all based on PROVEN facts, backed up with data.

    But Science has not proven any theory of how it all started or how man got here on Earth....There are plenty of theorys on the topic, but the only True account we really have is in the Documentation in the Bible that was Written over 4 thousand years ago. It's a History Book and Documentation of what really happened.

    The people in the Bilble are real people, they really lived, there is no doubt about that as History shows us this to be true.

    Science is Great, it has given us alot of good things, and alot of things that aren't so good, without it we would still be riding Horses and cooking over open flames.

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  8. #68
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    Originally posted by krupted

    Also is it possible to believe god exists but not believe in him? just something to think about, i really dont even know the answer to that one


    Yes it is possible, any alot of people do believe that.

    You can believe God exists, but not Believe IN GOD, it's all in the wording.

    Believing that God exists is believing in a higher power that is over all of us, created everything to begin with.

    Believing In God is following the word in the Bible and living it by excepting God into your life and letting him be your guide.


    Big difference there.

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  9. #69
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    Originally posted by jankerson
    Science has it's place and then so does the BIBLE.

    No we can't discount what Science says as it is all based on PROVEN facts, backed up with data.

    [...]

    The people in the Bilble are real people, they really lived, there is no doubt about that as History shows us this to be true.
    I guess you know the difference between history and prehistory. That says it all.
    Adam, Eva and Genesis are NOT History, it's just the best explanation they could think of at the time. I think they just forgot a few lines at the end of the story, like "we hope in the future someone finds a beter explanation, but with the little we know at this point, we can't. Please don't feel like you have to stick with this forever. We'd be sorry for you."
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  10. #70
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    Thread is heading toward religion/non-religion debate...
    "I know nothing."
    Cheers.

  11. #71
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    Yes, it's the ultimate never-to-be-settled forum topic and people have made their positions clear ... I suggest agreeing to disagree and moving on before the Central Lounge has a rare closure.

    Thanks,
    Eric

  12. #72
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    This is a good discussion if we can refocus it onto the original topic. Don't P/O the moderators!

    We all have our beliefs and I am certain no one here is going to be swayed so I see it as futile to try and sway people here. Most of our positions are known from those who have posted here.

    I agree that there is a higher power at work somewhere. The Believers call it God. We are a higher power than the bugs on this planet, but I would not be content to be called a God by them.

    I like what rangal said about other 'aliens' being afraid of Christ. His contention seems that this Proves Christ exists (but not necessarily as GOD) and discounts the atheist viewpoint. I disagree. Perhaps Christ and the Devil are competing space faring aliens. I know some of you would scoff at this idea, or as one reader said it was easier to believe in the existence of GOD before believing in 'aliens'. In my opinion they are one and the same.

    They are each higher than us, more powerful that us and may have an interest, good or bad, in our development. If I were to ever admit to the existence of a Higher Power it would be from outside this planet.

    I feel this belief is easier than GOD. If we exist then why not other races on other planets. You do not have the problem of 'Them' creating everything. Yet they are our betters technologically and probably spiritually. There MAY be a GOD who is higher than all of us (Earthlings AND the Aliens and all of the Universe) but that is a further extension of this discussion.

    Keep the ideas flowing!

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  13. #73
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    I don't discount god cause aliens may look up to him as well cause they wouldn't have the answer either. If I go by science which is just one way of looking at it latest theory has it that matter or electrons banged into a dimensional wall of a parallel universe and thus may have started the big bang or spread of rock all over the place.

  14. #74
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    I don't believe the Discussion should discount Believers or No believers as it has been a very interesting thread sofar.


    Good discussion is always a good thing.

    We can agree to disagee I believe and we should as the long time arguement isn't going to be settled here or anywhere in the near future anyway.

    It's the Science of the main topic that is interesting to me anyway. It always has been.

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  15. #75
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    I agree that there is a higher power at work somewhere.

    I do too, I am just woundering when the higher power will make themselves known to us, like showing up and saying "Hey here I am, glad to be here".

    I have read some theories in the Past that stated the Pyraminds where placed in the positions that they are to Line up with the Stars. Also they stated that the space between them could be a landing zone...Interesting thought.

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