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Thread: AAAAARRRGGGHHH.... Still confused...

  1. #16
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    I wished the sapphire 9800se when unlocked performed like a 9800 NP.

    http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...apphire-4.html

    There aren't too many reveiws that compare 9800se performance results, but this one does a decent job of comparing quite a few cards. Notice that the powercolor 9800se gold goes from about a 9600pro performance level to a 9800pro level when unlocked. (It's actually a little slower than the 9800pro due to slightly less aggressive timings.) The sapphire 9800se doesn't get such a big boost from being unlocked though. It would take an incredible amount of overclocking for an unlocked sapphire 9800se to perform above a 9600xt level.

  2. #17
    ol' man is offline workin fingas to the bone
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    Well something didn't get done right cause they show a 9500pro @ default 270/270 speeds besting a default 9600pro it would appear almost all of the time. That sappire would mod to a 9500pro but instead with like 325MHz default core speed which would destroy a 9600pro @ default speeds.

    Some one didn't either do the mod right or they got graphs switched around. Something doesn't look right at all. I have the same PCB with my 9500 here



    which is identical to that sapphire but I only have the lower OC'n r300 core. My 3dmark2k1 SE scores go up 2k after the mod @ 270MHZ.

  3. #18
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    I also thought that unlocking the 4 extra pipelines would give a bigger boost than it shows there for the 9800se. I remember reading a few other reviews that support that article's results however. I'll try to dig them up and post em here tomorrow. I need to study for a ochem test tonight.

  4. #19
    ol' man is offline workin fingas to the bone
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    The other reviews I have seen have shown the 9500np "I" line memory to 9500pro benchmarks.

  5. #20
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    I couldn't find any reviews that directly compared the unlocked sapphire 9800se to the 9500pro. Most sites that reviewed the 9800se, reviewed cards based on the 256-bit L memory conifguration.

    This review compares an unlocked 256 bit AIW 9800se to several other cards. The Hercules 9800se AIW has the same specs as the powercolor 9800se gold, so no surprises there.

    This article attempted to compare an unlocked sapphire radeon 9800se card with an unlocked powercolor 256 bit 9800se. Unfortunetly, only the powercolor card was successfully unlocked.

    This review compares a number of different cards, including a 128bit 9800se and a 9500np. They clocked the 9500np to the exact same speed as the 9800se (325/540). The performance difference between the two was negligible. It's pretty clear that there is virtually no difference between the 9500np and a 128bit 9800se (other than the later is based on the R350 core). So why doesn't the unlocked 128 bit 9800se perform like a 9500pro, or even better? Either something is holding these cards back; or as you suggested, they totally screwed up the benchmarking in the digit-life.com review.

  6. #21
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    Good work RDX, that's interesting reading.

    MuFu.

  7. #22
    ol' man is offline workin fingas to the bone
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    Have any of you checked out toms review. He has like 30 cards he tested. The 9800se he tested was a 128 bit card like the sapphire.

    http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphi...229/index.html

    The 9800se takes quite a few benchmarks away from the 9600XT.

  8. #23
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    I wonder if that's a typo. That card in Tom's benchmark is clocked at 380/675.

    All sapphire cards that I've seen are clocked at 325/500, 325/540 , 325/580, or 380/600 and have 128-bit memory with the last one being available only with 2 analog outputs (vs. 1 analog, 1 DVI).

    Powercolor makes a card that is clocked at 380/600 (but has a DVI out unlike the sapphire card clocked at this speed.), and has 128 bit memory. Their other card is clocked at 380/680 and has 256-bit memory. This card is sometimes called the 9800se gold.

    I have never seen a sapphire card clocked at 380/675 or a any other 128-bit 9800se clocked this high. The only cards produced with those memory speeds are the 256-bit powercolor 9800se gold, and strictly for our European friends, the Hercules 9800se AIW.

  9. #24
    ol' man is offline workin fingas to the bone
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    Originally posted by RDX
    I wonder if that's a typo. That card in Tom's benchmark is clocked at 380/675.

    All sapphire cards that I've seen are clocked at 325/500, 325/540 , 325/580, or 380/600 and have 128-bit memory with the last one being available only with 2 analog outputs (vs. 1 analog, 1 DVI).

    Powercolor makes a card that is clocked at 380/600 (but has a DVI out unlike the sapphire card clocked at this speed.), and has 128 bit memory. Their other card is clocked at 380/680 and has 256-bit memory. This card is sometimes called the 9800se gold.

    I have never seen a sapphire card clocked at 380/675 or a any other 128-bit 9800se clocked this high. The only cards produced with those memory speeds are the 256-bit powercolor 9800se gold, and strictly for our European friends, the Hercules 9800se AIW.
    Well what the hey. I wish someone could do a proper benchmark review without bull****ting around. I have no idea why it says it is running at that speed.

    Well no matter what 380MHz for a r350 core does not even make it break a sweat. It would probably do another 50~100MHz especially with only 4 pipes. If it really was clocked that high then that is the reason. And I have heard they put pretty decent memory on them too at times but also the crappy tsop.

  10. #25
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    Well what the hey. I wish someone could do a proper benchmark review without bull****ting around.
    I would second that. It's even harder trying to figure out what vendors are selling when they advertise a 9800se. It's seems like every one I look at has a description for a sapphire 9800se, a product code for a 9800se gold, a picture of a sapphire 9800se @ 300/500 and 256-bit memory claims in the specs.

  11. #26
    ol' man is offline workin fingas to the bone
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    Thats why I would go with the egg. $152 is a very low ball amount. If you pay $170+ you would expect to get a 256bit and if you didn' you would be pissed. You may get a tsop The egg wouldn't BS you around with what they have and if they made a mistake they would take care of it the right way I think.

  12. #27
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    This is an interesting discussion. I just purchased a refurbed powercolor 9800SE from newegg.com for $132. I figured it was probably just sent back because it wasnt a 256-bit version. When i got it i found out that it wasnt. It was only the 128-bit but it modded perfectly.

    I never even installed the normal drivers. I went straight to the omega drivers that enable all 8 pipelines. at stock speeds of 380/300 i got 13500 on 3dmark01. I was a bit disappointed since i had read like many of you about overclocked 9500pro's getting really nice scores. i even saw one article where a 9500 pro that was overclocked was doing about as well as a 9700 at stock speeds. Previously I had a 9500np with a 256-bit bus and 4 pipelines clocked at 375/290 and it scored 13000.

    I will install the 4 pipeline drivers when i get home and see what kind of results i get and post em here to show you the difference between the powercolor 128-bit 9800SE at 4 pipelines.

    I wonder if there is something holding this card back. perhaps something in the drivers or the bios. I'll post my results as soon as i get them.

  13. #28
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    Excellent, it would be nice to get some first hand experience on the matter. BTW, can you tell us the type and rating of the ram on the powercolor card?

    And welcome to HardwareCentral!

  14. #29
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    HERE is my thread about which one to get a 9600XT Or 9800SE if you have a look here.
    Gigabyte Z87M-D3H l Pentium DC 3.2GHz l 16GB Ram l 64GB OCZ SSD l Radeon 7750 OC Edition l Windows 7 Ultimate X64
    Dell OptiPlex 745 l Intel C2D E6600 2.4GHz l 4GB Ram l 64GB OCZ SSD l Windows 7 Ultimate X64
    Lenovo ThinkPad T61 l C2D T7700 2.4GHz l 8GB Ram l 60GB Kingston SSD l Windows 7 Ultimate X64

  15. #30
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    ok, i ran home for lunch and did some benchmarking.

    I have a powercolor 9800SE with 128-bit memory bus and samsung 3.3ns ram. The default clocks are 380 core, 300 mem.

    with default clocks i got the following 3dmark 2001 scores
    4 pipeline - 12,042 omega drivers
    8 pipeline - 13,658 omega softmod drivers
    8 pipeline clocked @ 365/371 - 14,218 omega softmod drivers

    I have an ASUS A7N8X deluxe 2.0 with FSB at 203mhz and AMD cpu @ 1930mhz. 512megs single channel.

    I had to underclock the core in order to overclock the memory at all. It wouldnt break 310 without artifacts otherwise. Once I brought the core down a bit that memory really soared. I am considering a volt mod to get a bit more from the core/mem. Right now I have an old amd HS/F on the core and it keeps it pretty cool compared to the stock hs/f.

    The powercolor is definitely the best of the 9800SEs right now with its default clock of 380/300 and the good quality mem they put on the boards. The only problem is that it normally costs like $170-$180 due to the fact that everyone was buying them trying to get the 256-bit models. I got mine as a newegg refurb card for $132. If not for that good price one would be better off buying a 9700 or 9700 pro. I have seen some sites lately having pretty good sales on these cards. A while back gameve.com had 9700 for $170-free shipping. I think they still have Pros left that they are selling for $199.

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