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Thread: "The ideal water block"

  1. #16
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    I still don't trust the increased turbulance. With standard heatsinks this is a bad think. It puts a lot of back pressure and causes the air to get stagnant. I made a heatsink with an old GlobalWin FOP32-1. I added a low RPM 80mm fan on top. To fit the fan I spread the fins out on the heatsink out to 80mm. The larger space between along the top drastically decreased the horrable turbulance at the top and this heatsink works pretty good. Thye fan does generate more CFM airflow then the YS-Tech 60mm fan I used to have (34 instead of 26), but the amount actually passing through the heatsink is about 3 times what it was befor. It cools better than most copper heatsinks with 700RPM fans on top. 42'C full load is a great temp for an all alluminum heatsink with a 2500RPM fan that generates a minumal 30db.

    If you look at the Maze3 above, they did add some very shallow channels in the bottom to sort of mix up the water. I'm guessing it would make the water spin slightly in the channel as it spirals around the water block.

    As for the pressure on the core, AMD requires something crazy like 20+ lbs of pressure on the core. Have the tip be a half circle blade and add a small notch in the middle so the block will not slide or twist. A large thumb screw with fine threads would be fine.

    You do not want to put radiators in parralel. The water will take the path of least resistance and flow more through the radiator with the least restrictions. If you want two or three then run them in line or series. I was thinking of added a third coil on the inside, but I did not think I could get any smaller coils without crshing the tubing.

    Chances are both blocks will work just fine for standard water cool. Peltier cooling will start to push things a bit. Make both and compare them. That is about the only way to really check. Also you have to look at the cost to make each. I have no idea if the ribs will increase the cost or is a spirrellnig channel is harder to cut, but if the performance is similar in both, you likely will want to use the one that looks better and cost less as these factors sell blocks better than most other features.

    As to watching the BIOS as you tighten down the four bolt, I'd still be afraid of over-tightening one corner and cracking or frying the CPU. I have little money to replace parts I screw up. That is why I tested my cooling on my K6-2 instead of my Duron 900 or AthlonXP 1600+.

    By the way here are some links to pictures of my mod'd heatsink and water cooling set-up (work in progress with testing and my old radiator):

    http://www.geocities.com/todd_e_abbo...opagerock.html

    http://www.geocities.com/todd_e_abbott/computer1.html

    http://www.geocities.com/todd_e_abbo...putermod3.html

    http://www.geocities.com/todd_e_abbo...ti4200mod.html

    If you have not figured it out, I'm bored. My wife works 2nd and I work 1st and I'm stuck at home watching a 1, 3, and 5 year old. Computers is one of my only hobies left.
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  2. #17
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    Heh, I did the same thing to a vantec HS. I didn't want the 6800rpm beast on it, so I widened the fins and stuck an 80mm, just as you have.

  3. #18
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    Yah I had ordered a FOP32-1 for a friend's computer when I upgraded it because I liked my FOP32-1 I ran on my Duron 600@900Mhz. Well the company messed up and sent me two (I double checked, but they only charged me for one). Well I mod'd it about 2 years ago, but it set in my parts box for a year befor I got my AthlonXP 1600+. I was paranoid about using it, but when I finally hooked it up, I was plesantly supprised with the performance.

    Well I read a few articles and some turbulance is supposed to be good. They said the s channels aded turbulance (and surface space), but they were showing off a Swiftek waterblock which was basically a box with the inlet in the middle and a bunch of depressions covering the bottom of the heatsink (looks like they just used a drill, but only went in a bit with the tip to make little cone shapes). It perfromed pretty good with a peltier and an AthlonXP 1600+ running at 1.83Ghz. They got the CPU down to 9'C.

    I also was bored and desided to design another idea. Think of a block of copper about 65x70x70mm and drill 16 holes in a 4x4 grid all the way through the block (3/8" holes will fit with about 1/8 inbetween and an extra 5mm on the bottom). Then cut some small channels in the end to connect the channels together. Add a plate on each end and some water fittings.

    I made a guess on surface area on this thing and it falls in around 50 cubit inches. Thats more than most heatsinks. With all the bends it should have plenty of turbulance, but hopefully no dead spots. It is likely a bit overkill, but should be pretty easy to build. You could even make the end plates out of lexan That would look really cool with some dye and in the water (like Dylite) and a black light. The sides of the block would glow nicely.
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  4. #19
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    And here is my clip idea. If you have guessed, I have had some mechanical drawing classes way back in high school, but all are just quick free-hand drawings without the aid of a simple ruler or cyrcle templete, but you should be able to understand them just fine.
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    Last edited by Todd a; July 28th, 2002 at 11:43 AM.
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  5. #20
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    i think i like this clamp better from the looks

    http://becooling.safeshopper.com/6/12.htm?784

    i think it makes more sence to have the pressure in the middle...

  6. #21
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    That's pretty much the same idea. The only thing I'm not too comfortable with is a single point in the middle because of the nilon screw. I'd rather have a wedge that fits into a slot of some sort so the block can not twist.The clip I have is off an old heatsink with extenders added to make up for the thinkness of the block. The clip is not strong enough and it has a tendancy to twist. Likely if you screwed it down tighter it would not twist anyways, but I'm paranoid. Your clip would be pretty easy to make, but I'd use a smaller block of aluminum. Maybe drill some holes in the side to make it lighter and add to the looks a bit. Man I just love this upload feature and my Digital Camcorder. Takes me a few minutes to draw out an idea and about 30 seconds to take the picture, dump it to my computer, and upload it to this site. I just wish I could directly insert the picture that way too so you did not have to click on a link, but this is much better than nothing.
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  7. #22
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    Hey I got the last of the clamps I needed and have juiced it up with some distilled water and anti-freeze (50/50 mix). I also got the fan grill on the 92mm fan on the radiator. In a few weeks I will replace my K6-2 450@504Mhz with a Celeron 633@950Mhz. I need an ATX power supply and motherboard first. I will drop my water cooler in that to do some better testing. The temps sensor in the CPU will help me to tell just how good it cools. Right now I only have a thermometer in the resivour (which if you have not noticed is a baby bottle).
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  8. #23
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    Heh, I like the green color. Just keep it away from the kids and pets.

    I like your mods, Todd a. That modded HS with the 80mm on it could probably take more heat than even your 1600+ could give. Mine keeps a 1900+ in the low 40s, but I have a faster fan on top (4500rpm). I really have my fins spread out on it, including bent to the sides and angled out (wish I could take a picture ). This thing is really quite efficient, especially considering it was never designed for a 1900+

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    I've made some changes in the block's design, including size that will be 60x54mm, the 60 is the maximum distance for the block to be able to use a mounting mechanism that will attach itself to the socket lugs in socket A, the maximum distance for being able to mount on the 4 holes (also socket A) is around 55mm, the 54 is for technical reasons in the cast process, also another internal division was added because of the bigger size, also both holes will be exiting from one side of the block's top, of course the channels are still 1/2. I will be posting a 3d sketch or the actual pics of the block, whatever comes first.

    @anyone who is concernet about burning their $200 CPUs

    Don't worry, after the block is ready I will make several tests on it, my overclocked xp 1700+ outputs around 100w of heat, that's not much heat, I know, but I won't make it available unless it gives me some very good results at keeping my system cool under strong stress conditions (benchmarking utils, 3ds raytrace rendering, video processing, heavy gaming and so on). I'm trying to start a computer cooling business here so selling a couple of units, having reports of bad performance and having to sell all the new machinery I got to pay for the loan I made is no good for me. I really want this block to perform well, if it doesn't I will modify it, if it still doesn't I will redesing the whole thing, and of course, still seel it for $15, or $13, didn't make up my mind yet

    @Todd a: I know what it like to be bored, but you better thank your wife is not jealous of you computer as my girlfriend is hehe

    I'd rather have a wedge that fits into a slot of some sort so the block can not twist
    Me too, that's why I'm adding the rubber in the bolt at the contact point, I've been thinking about addind some kind of "slot" for the bold to fit in as well but after thinking for a couple of days I had no better ideas than making a little (like 3mm tall) copper "cone" at the top of the block, same diameter as the bolt but I don't know if that would help much.

    I like your clip designs, especially the clip 2, that is exactly what I'm going for. I wish I could draw like you, I'm a mess when it comes to paper and pencil.

    About your block design, that is what I call a big *** block! I guess it could perform very well, but how much would it weight? copper is 8,23 grams for each cubic centimeter.

    You got a nice computer in there, lots of cool moddings.

    @dfgsd: I agree with you about putting pressure on the middle

  10. #25
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    You can make the block bigger than 60mm. You could get it to fit on some boards all the way up to 60x80mm, but I'd stay at about 60x70mm. Yes it would be heavy, but you likely could shrink it down a bit with thinner wals and such. I basically got the idea from a large heatsink called the CORE. It was a large block of copper with holes drilled in it an a fan on top. It did not work that good, but it looked cool.

    I did get an idea if you wanted to test the flow on a block. Use lexan on the top and add small beads into the water. Something like tiny plastic beads (about the size of sand) Maybe even saw dust. Then you might be able to see where the water flows the best.
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  11. #26
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    I know even 60x80mm could still fit on some boards, but in my case (soyo dragon +) those measures I posted before are the bigger I can get without loosing the ability to make both retention mehcanisms available (holes and socket lugs) as I want, so that may be a problem, anyway I'm still looking into it.
    I will probably experiment with something like that (that huge block) as soon as things slow down a little around here, it sounds interesting. By the way I will be making some copper heatsinks in the near future.
    I tought on something like that for cosmetic purposes a couple of times, actually using it for testing the flow is a lot smarter than my idea Also I have tons of sawdust available, my grandfather works making wood frames for paintings, well you get the picture.

    Thanks for everything, you are really helping me out here, right now I'm so broke I can't even afford to go to the movie theater or something because I spent all my money on machinery but as soon as I begin to sell some units I will send you a free block (shhh don't tell anyone).

  12. #27
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    I cant afford movies either and with 3 small kids it's a pretty impossible thing. That's why I download all my screaners and DVDs of KaZaA. I'm watch Contact right now. Good copy DivX.

    Hey if you dad's a carpenter, manbe he can make a killer case to show off you block in for some good finished photos.

    The other thing I was thinking has how hard would it be to do etchings on a water block (like and AMD logo or something like that) to add flare.

    As for the retension clip. I also figured that you could have some tabs or a lip that hangs over the edge, possibly against the ZIF tabs just to keep it from twisting. Then just a little divet in the middle to take the pin from the retension clip to keep it in place. Should work fine.

    I wish I had the tools to make some of my ideas myself. My block I had to cut with a hack saw and smooth it with a vibration sander. The channels were all made with a hand drill. It took about 50 holes total and a lot of twisting of the drill to connect them all. I'm supprised I have all my fingers still. I took the block to work to use the pipe tap so I could attach the fittings and a smaller tap for the 4 screws that hold it together. I used a silicon sealant for automotive waterpump gaskets (that blue stuff) to seal it together. 100% water tight. I used teflon tape on the fittings. The tubing is 3/8" inside diameter and the copper tubing is 3/8" outside diameter. Fits together great. Add some elbows and snake clamps to finish it all off. Add some distilled water and automotive anti-freaze and your good to go. My new radiator is just great and it only took me about 10 minutes to make. I hope it works good. I really wish I had copper to make the block with, but the place I work at only has steal and aluminium scrap to pick from.

    Of coarse with all the fancy blocks out there I think the Maze1 looks good to me (that is why my water block is exactly the same). I think the look could be inmproved. Even adding small fins on the top about 1/8th inch high to look kind of like a heatsink off a 486.Here's a a picture to give you some more ideas in actual creative designing. Really I don't think to many blocks are much better than the Maze1 and most cooling systems fail with the pump, tubing and radiator. The block is one of the easier part. Getting enough surface area, air flow, and water volume is MUCH harder, so cosmetics, price, and luck are what will make it sell. Mix this block with the Clip2 and you'll have a nice package.
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    Last edited by Todd a; July 30th, 2002 at 11:01 AM.
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  13. #28
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    Let me fill you in a little known secret. Why? You say. Because I'm a nice guy. All you guys with HoH cooling listen up. Flush out all the ethylene glycol and use clean water with the addition of Purple Ice at the mix of 2 ounces per gallon. Purple Ice lowers the surface tension of the water which allows it to transfer more heat to the radiator. It is very possible to lower your temps by 20 degrees F. This product also coats the copper and/or aluminum parts and protects them from corosion. It also lubricates the pump. Adding anti freeze will only lessen the effectiveness of the Purple Ice. Purplr Ice is made by Royal Purple, maker of all sorts of lubrication products.
    *This space for rent*

  14. #29
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    Originally posted by The*Q*
    Let me fill you in a little known secret. Why? You say. Because I'm a nice guy. All you guys with HoH cooling listen up. Flush out all the ethylene glycol and use clean water with the addition of Purple Ice at the mix of 2 ounces per gallon. Purple Ice lowers the surface tension of the water which allows it to transfer more heat to the radiator. It is very possible to lower your temps by 20 degrees F. This product also coats the copper and/or aluminum parts and protects them from corosion. It also lubricates the pump. Adding anti freeze will only lessen the effectiveness of the Purple Ice. Purplr Ice is made by Royal Purple, maker of all sorts of lubrication products.
    Sounds similar to "Water Wetter" radiator coolant, made by Red Line Synthetic Oil; wetting agent, anti-electrolyte, anti-fungal, lubricant and very, very smelly. Good for use in Wasserkühlung.

    MuFu.
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  15. #30
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    Yah there are several products like that, but they all cost money and I had some around the house. Stuff like racing radiator fluid is supposed to work pretty good to. Distilled water was only 80 cents a gallon here, so I splurged. The differance is not really that big. It does help a few degrees. Its kind of like thermal grease from Radio Shack adn Arctic Silver 2. If both are applied correctly, the differance should only be about 1-2'C at best. The layer is supposed to be very thin a that little on a layer should add almost no thermal resistance. If you tend to gob it on then the AS2 will work much better, but just using a thin layer of the cheap stuff would likey work better still.

    The Water Wetter likely makes up for poorly designed water blocks and radiators. Besides I like the green color. I will likely get a UV light and some dye eventually when I get my case done and system installed with the water cooling. I have a nice AT case that is pretty big (about the size of an Antec SX1030). I will use the frame to build a case around as the sides and top are all one peice and that will not do. I'm thinking either lexan on the sides and top with a mod'd front bezal that I will paint. I might use tinded lexan on the top and other side. I might cut the old case apost for a top panel. A woodeen with a 120mm brass fan grill and a clock up top where 3 of the 4 CD bays are is the other idea. It will likely have a large window on the side and a small one on top. I've also been thinking of cutting off the side pannel and making some sort of hing, but the seam between the top and side will be hard to make good with my limited money and tools.
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