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Thread: Need Expert advise:

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    Soldotna, Alaska
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    Need Expert advise:

    I'm looking to "pull the trigger" on the following system,

    Amd xp 2000
    gigabyte via kt266a GA-7vtxe
    512mb (2x256) ddr sdram pc2100
    100 gb wd 7200 rpm ata 100 hd (special ed)
    pioneer 16x dvd rom
    plextor 24x10x40
    64mb geforce 3 ti500 agp w/ tv-out
    sound blaster audigy platinum
    1.44 floppy windows xp
    in win atx full tower case
    3com pci 10/100
    Windows XP
    NO MONITOR
    NO PHONE MODEM
    NO MOUSE
    NO KEYBOARD
    NO SPEAKERS
    $1,584 !!! this price is about $1000 cheaper than the nearest system. In the recent pc mag it was rated an 8 out of 10. Nice things were said about the performance in office applications but its gaming benchmarks were "abysmal" its quakeIII framerate was 13 less than the leader of the test group.
    NOW MY QUESTION:
    These are top notch components, What variables come into play to make nearly identical systems (same components) perform different. AND, what could I possibly do to improve this configuration after I purchase it?
    At $1,600 I'm tempted to buy it, and take it to a local mom and pop computer shop and have them go through it, maybe upgrade wiring and cooling systems... and overclock? What do you guys think?

    Would it be safe for me to do that myself?

    Thanks!

    "I have seen the arctic circle, and it is round"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Bloomingdale, IL, USA
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    5,206
    Er....don't buy the AthXP 2000+. You can save A LOT of money by going with either a 1900+ or 1800+ and you will notice NO difference in performance. Video card is nice but I would wait about two weeks. Prices should drop now that the GeForce 4 is out. The Special Edition WD drives are highly overrated unless you do a bunch of HUGE file transfers (like DivX movies and such). Money can be saved by going with a TDK CD-RW instead of the costly Plextor. Everything else sounds nice though!

    ------------------
    MSI K7T Turbo-R w/ 2.35v mod
    AthlonXP 1600+ @1900+ @ 1.75v
    256MB Corsair PC150 CL3
    12x DVD, 12x CDRW
    Water-cooled 118w Peltier
    Diamond TNT2 Viper V770 @ 160/190
    Intel Pentium 4 2.53B C1 @2.85GHz (stock volts), watercooled @ 27*C load
    MSI 865PE Neo2-P (i865PE + ICH5), 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM
    ATi Radeon X700Pro 256MB AGP8x
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160GB SATA, Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus 80GB
    NEC DVD-RW (ND-3520A), Lite-On 52/32/52x CD-RW (LTR-52327S)
    Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2

    My Heatware | My Beerology | My eBay rating


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Michigan USA
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    217
    Yeah I would recommend some RAID action in place of just 1 7200rpm drive, helps out loading times a bunch. and I agree with duron all the way, except maybe on the CD-RW they are both almost perfectly matched though. Shoot for the GF4 if you can. Only slightly more, but with the money you could save going RAID and the TDK, you should still comeback same price.

    AuRo

    ------------------
    "You can't hurt The Colonal, because The Colonal likes it rough!"
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    "You can't hurt The Colonal, because The Colonal likes it rough!"
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    53
    the first weird part is no kb or mouse...i could see no monitor but...
    western digital is overated...
    there are some lamo versions of the geforce out there...

    there's something "whimsical" about it...dunno obviosly they are making money off it...

    there will be more dude...maybe build your own?

    ------------------
    Have you had your hack today ?
    Have you had your hack today ?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Soldotna, Alaska
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    February issue of MAXIMUMPC.. "The tiger was the only system that wasn't configured with a RAID array. But SYSmark2001 didn't seem to mind. The Tiger returned the second highest score in our roundup, which we suspect is a result of the massive 8mb cache on the 100 gb western digital 'Special Edition'"


    RAID is not offered at this site.

    I save $100 by dropping to an xp 1800.

    The plextor is also the only option and dropping it saves me only $55 dollars against the cost of the system.

    I'll wait till February 14th. But I still would like some advice on what I can do to a system AFTER I buy it (like wiring schemes/cooling/overclocking).

    [This message has been edited by Samazon (edited 02-07-2002).]

    [This message has been edited by Samazon (edited 02-07-2002).]
    "I have seen the arctic circle, and it is round"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,771
    I think you should just buy all of the same parts and build it yourself. You will save a bit of money plus you will learn about what makes the computer tick.

    Just my humble opinion though.

    ------------------
    Mike
    Mechanical Engineer
    Dell Computer Corporation
    Storage Systems Group
    Mike
    Mechanical Engineer
    Dell Computer Corporation
    Server Development

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    San Jose, California, USA
    Posts
    2,676
    I just completed the following system about 1 week ago for a friend (though I think I will keep it instead!)

    Case - Antec SX-830 http://www.antec-inc.com/product/cases/wkstion.html
    Case Fans (2) Antec (included with case)
    Power Supply - Enermax 300W http://www.directron.com/peg301p.html
    Keyboard -Generic PS/2 keyboard
    Mouse - Logitech PS/2 optical http://www.logitech.com/cf/products/...verview.cfm/94
    Floppy - Generic 3 1/2 floppy
    DVD - 12x40x DVD
    CD Burner-24x10x40 Burner http://www.zdnet.com/products/storie...536101,00.html
    Motherboard-Soyo Dragon Plus KT266A http://www.soyousa.com/
    Card Reader-Soyo Card Reader with Dual USB ports (included with motherboard)
    CPU-AMD Athlon Xp 1800+ (1.53GHZ)which can O/C to 1.7GHZ (2000+) http://athlonxp.amd.com/
    CPU Fan Swiftech MCX462 http://www.cluboverclocker.com/revie...iftech/mcx462/
    Hard Drive-Maxtor 6L040J2. Maxtor 40GB/7200rpm Ultra ATA/133 Internal Hard Drive D740X Series
    Sound-(motherboard based multi-channel
    Network card (motherboard based 10/100 NIC)
    Modem-56K PCI FAX/Modem
    Chipset cooler (motherboard based)
    Memory-Mushkin 256MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM
    Video card-ATI RADEON 8500 64MB DDR (OEM)http://www.ati.com/na/pages/products...500/index.html
    Speakers-Logitech Z-540 http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/...h/z540/001.htm

    Total $1,342.00
    Tax $110.72
    Grand Total $1,452.72 (list price)
    Actual build cost (through sale purchasing) is about $1,180.00

    I do not think your mom and pop store will overclock your machine, even if they knew how. I agree to get the 1800+ and save money.

    [This message has been edited by AMD Guy (edited 02-07-2002).]

    Current Main Rig:
    AMD FX55 @ 2.9 GHz
    2 GB PC 3200 DDR RAM
    ABIT KN8 SLi motherboard
    ATI X1900XT O/C to XTX speeds

    Retired Rig:
    AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton @ 2387 MHz. (217*11)
    512MB DDR RAM @ 436 MHz. (PC 3700)
    Abit AN7 motherboard
    BFG GeForce 6800GT OC!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    Soldotna, Alaska
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    Thats a good price.

    I priced all the components offered by ABS and my total was $200 dollars HIGHER (Pricewatch.com) and that DIDN'T include shipping.
    I was joking with a friend that I should ask ABS NOT to put it to gether and just send me the parts. (doubt they would do that!)
    The game has changed in the last couple days with the release of the next gen Geforce. I'll most likely purchase around Valentines day.

    What variables come into play when systems with identical components put together by different vendors have different benchmark scores?

    ------------------
    So, after three years on the internet, my father forgets his password. The operator asks him for his screen name, "whats a screen name" he replies.
    "I have seen the arctic circle, and it is round"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Grand Haven, Michigan, USA
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    11,332
    Be brave, be daring, be stupid. Just build it your self. That way you know exxactly what is in there, how well it will upgrade, how good the parts are, and likely save a lot of money. If you already have a computer, you can scrounge a few essentuals out of that system to save a few bucks. Say you have an old Pentium 166. If the case, keyboard and mouse are still good and look fine, then a new power supply is all you need. You can scrounge things like 3-1/2" floppy drive, CD-ROM (even an old 8X will work fine for most people), modem, and network card. Even a sound card and speakers can be salvage if you are not too picky about sound quality. This can save you a bundle.

    You can then drop in a cheap motherboard, CPU, memory, power supply, hard drive, and video card. Depending on the amount of performance you are looking for you might pay as little as $350 for Duron1Ghz, 128MB DDR, 20GB hard drive, 300w PS, GeForce2 GTS-V, and ECS K7S5A. For a bit better system you could spend $850 for an Epox 8KHA+, 256MB DDR, 40GB hard drive, 400w PS, AthlonXP 1800+, sound blaster Audigy, CD-R/W, and GeForce4 Ti 4200. That is a good range (350-850) for a nice to powerfull upgrade. You can also add the rest of the parts to finish the system off (NIC, speakers, mouse, keyboard, floppy drive, DVD, case, heatsink, fans) for about $200-400 depending on quality of parts. That is about about $550 for a full 1Ghz system (no monitor) to about $1250 for a power system. If you wanted to go even farther, you could get the GeForce4 Ti 4600, AthlonXP 2000+, and 512MB DDR and add another $400 or so.

    With a bit of tweeking in the BIOS (mostly memory timings) and a bit of overclocking, you would blow away just about anything you could buy out there for a much better price. You could also go for a P4 system, but the only ones worth it right now are the 2.0a and 2.2 Northwood proccessors and they would add at least 2-300 to the high end system (stick with the Duron for the low end as Celerons suck and the higher speed PIII tulitin cores are too expensive).

    ------------------
    AthlonXP 1600+ @1.5Ghz
    FOP32-1 Mod w/80mm (30db)
    Epox 8KHA+ KT266A
    256MB Crucial DDR266
    GeForce2 GTS (210/410)
    Sound Blaster Audigy
    Antec SX-630 Case (mod'd)
    TTGI TT-350-SS 370w PS
    AMD Phenom II x4 945 3Ghz | ASUS M4A77TD | 2X WD 1TB SATA 2 hard drive | 2x2GB Corsair XMS3 | nVidia GeForce 8800 GTS | ATI TV Wonder Theater Pro 550 | Antec P-160 case | Antec 650w Earth Watts | LG Blu-ray Super Drive | LG DVD RW | Windows 7 Pro

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Soldotna, Alaska
    Posts
    210
    Originally posted by Todd a:
    Be brave, be daring, be stupid. Just build it your self... If you already have a computer, you can scrounge a few essentuals out of that system to save a few bucks...
    I'm keeping my mouse, keyboard, monitor and Speakers (optical Logitec,Dell quiet key, Sony 19" Trinitron, altec lansing surround). I don't want to cannabalize my Dell as I plan to pass it on to my Girlfriend's Daughter. As for building one myself, I have considered this but as stated previously I have been unable to find the same components I want at the comparable price (is pricewatch.com NOT the place to look for the cheapest priced components?)

    I'm looking to put together the fastest AMD system possible, I don't want any inferior motherboards. Does anyone think I could get what I listed at the top of this thread for less than $1600 buying the parts individually? (I realize the Geforce3 will drop in price soon if not already).

    Thanks again.

    ------------------
    "Who says nothing is impossible??? I do nothing everyday!"
    "I have seen the arctic circle, and it is round"

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Bloomingdale, IL, USA
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    5,206
    Yes you could. Check around on the FOR SALE part of these forums as well as on eBay. I buy most of my stuff from eBay or local computer shows, and I save A LOT. The only advantages of having a system from a corporate builder is tech support and an OS. However, you sacrifice both price and performance when doing this. Prices are inflated from manufacturers, and their performance is degraded with all the extra crap they throw on there (HP and Compaq are notorious for this...Gateway is getting there..).

    Figure this...
    -Epox 8KHA+ KT266A mobo $75-80
    -AMD AthlonXP 1800+ $130
    -256mb DDR $65
    -1 or 2 80gb Seagate Barracuda IV hard drives $100 each on eBay usually
    -GF3 Ti200 64mb $150 *Ti500 will be about $200 in a few weeks*
    -Sound Blaster Audigy $60 (comp shows around here are about that)
    -Antec case + 350w Antec PSU $100 (or close?)
    -DLINK or LINKSYS PCI NIC 10/100 $15 retail at computer stores(CompUSA)
    -Pioneer 16x DVD $75
    -TDK 24x10x40 $150 (or less, I think)
    -Windows XP Home $150
    -1.44mb floppy..who needs this anymore??? If you really want one go get a generic $10 online somewhere....I've never heard of a "WindowsXP" floppy drive.

    Thats like [b]$930-1030 depending on if you get one or two 80gb hard drives. Throw maybe $80-100 on for total shipping costs. Plus you get to have your fun building your own computer. I think this is always best as I can still give you the specs of any computer I've ever built/upgraded just by seeing the person or case.

    Also, about the Barracuda's...these are the quietest hard drives around as well as some of the highest-performing drive available. Personally, I don't have one, but when I get the money I will. If you could get two of these in RAID0 you would have a very fast system with 80gb of hard disk sspace.

    EDIT: Everything in bold are updated.

    ------------------
    MSI K7T Turbo-R w/ 2.35v mod
    AthlonXP 1600+ @1900+ @ 1.75v
    256MB Corsair PC150 CL3
    12x DVD, 12x CDRW
    Water-cooled 118w Peltier
    Diamond TNT2 Viper V770 @ 160/190

    [This message has been edited by DuronClocker (edited 02-07-2002).]
    Intel Pentium 4 2.53B C1 @2.85GHz (stock volts), watercooled @ 27*C load
    MSI 865PE Neo2-P (i865PE + ICH5), 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM
    ATi Radeon X700Pro 256MB AGP8x
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160GB SATA, Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus 80GB
    NEC DVD-RW (ND-3520A), Lite-On 52/32/52x CD-RW (LTR-52327S)
    Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2

    My Heatware | My Beerology | My eBay rating


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Soldotna, Alaska
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    Alrighty... you have me convinced... I'll build my own. BUT... my only previous experience working on computer hardware was oiling my father's case fan on his 333mhz Emachine and completely disassembling and reassembling my keyboard (rubber cups and all...don't ask why). So with my extensive knowledge of computers can you point me in the direction of a web sight or publication that will walk me through the building of a top notched Amd system step by step, do's dont's, tweaks and tips? THANKS AGAIN!

    ------------------
    "Who says nothing is impossible??? I do nothing everyday!"
    "I have seen the arctic circle, and it is round"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Bloomingdale, IL, USA
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    Originally posted by Samazon:
    Alrighty... you have me convinced... I'll build my own. BUT... my only previous experience working on computer hardware was oiling my father's case fan on his 333mhz Emachine and completely disassembling and reassembling my keyboard (rubber cups and all...don't ask why). So with my extensive knowledge of computers can you point me in the direction of a web sight or publication that will walk me through the building of a top notched Amd system step by step, do's dont's, tweaks and tips? THANKS AGAIN!

    http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com

    The knowledge of all those people can help you with any computer-related problem and/or question you may have.

    ------------------
    MSI K7T Turbo-R w/ 2.35v mod
    AthlonXP 1600+ @1900+ @ 1.75v
    256MB Corsair PC150 CL3
    12x DVD, 12x CDRW
    Water-cooled 118w Peltier
    Diamond TNT2 Viper V770 @ 160/190
    Intel Pentium 4 2.53B C1 @2.85GHz (stock volts), watercooled @ 27*C load
    MSI 865PE Neo2-P (i865PE + ICH5), 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM
    ATi Radeon X700Pro 256MB AGP8x
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160GB SATA, Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus 80GB
    NEC DVD-RW (ND-3520A), Lite-On 52/32/52x CD-RW (LTR-52327S)
    Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2

    My Heatware | My Beerology | My eBay rating


  14. #14
    MitchSchaft Guest
    It's easier than putting together legos.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Bloomingdale, IL, USA
    Posts
    5,206
    Originally posted by MitchSchaft:
    It's easier than putting together legos.
    lol...then I must be talented...I use LEGOS in my computers

    ------------------
    MSI K7T Turbo-R w/ 2.35v mod
    AthlonXP 1600+ @1900+ @ 1.75v
    256MB Corsair PC150 CL3
    12x DVD, 12x CDRW
    Water-cooled 118w Peltier
    Diamond TNT2 Viper V770 @ 160/190
    Intel Pentium 4 2.53B C1 @2.85GHz (stock volts), watercooled @ 27*C load
    MSI 865PE Neo2-P (i865PE + ICH5), 1GB PC3200 DDR RAM
    ATi Radeon X700Pro 256MB AGP8x
    Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160GB SATA, Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus 80GB
    NEC DVD-RW (ND-3520A), Lite-On 52/32/52x CD-RW (LTR-52327S)
    Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2

    My Heatware | My Beerology | My eBay rating


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