More incidents in London

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Originally Posted by SexyMF

And, damnit Islam, take responsibility for your people (said knowing that it is not a fact that Isalmic people are involved)

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I agree with you. Our Church never ever educates us to hate others and other religions. We are, since we were a kid, to love and to care for others, be they poor, handicapped or abandoned. The head of the religion has all the responsibilities in the world to educate them not to hate.

I fear not to go to London for viewtrips. In fact, I am encouraging my friends and their kids to go for the summer vacation. What these terrorists want is to scare off innocent citizens and create a horiifying atmosphere. If we refrain from going to England just because of that, we will be giving in to these monsters! I hate them, and I will NEVER forgive these terrorists and those who are habouring them.

Terrorism is a new enemy to our world, every one of us living on this planet. It is more than the damages that their attack has brought about. It is a kind of deviated thinking. In the past, we had the IRA but they are not the same as today's terrorists. The primary difference between IRA and terrorists is IRA's targets were mostly structures. Collateral damages though, did happen. But terrorists target at people. The most frustrating is that they target at innocent people. Another issue posed by terrorism is that there are no entities which constitutes and control the group. They are ... like a network but you can't see and identify until they take actions.

During the cold war, we have clear enemies. Our missiles had targets so did the other side. We have to study them. I don't know how, but we must find a way to do that.

The latest news is that special duties have shot dead one suspect in the Stockwell tube station. The suspect fell on his knees aparently, by accident while he was on the run. One of the servicemen grabbed him and pushed him on the ground. When others reached the spot, they shot him. 5 shots. I guess he was trying something really stupid. Bomb is horrible but chemical attack is really the most terrifying. All suspects should be shot on sight because if any device they carry goes off, disaster will follow. 1 dead is better than a hundred.

I say prayers everyday for British servicemen in the Gulf. We should pray for the safety of every men and wonmen in the country and let's pray God enter these terrorist hearts and stop hurting others.

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Originally Posted by Q_Son

The latest news is that special duties have shot dead one suspect in the Stockwell tube station. The suspect fell on his knees aparently, by accident while he was on the run. One of the servicemen grabbed him and pushed him on the ground. When others reached the spot, they shot him. 5 shots. I guess he was trying something really stupid. Bomb is horrible but chemical attack is really the most terrifying.

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Seems like our services are beginning to adopt a "don't **** with us" attitude.

I say about time.

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Originally Posted by RecklessLeper

Seems like our services are beginning to adopt a "don't **** with us" attitude.

I say about time.

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I concur. Because the result of letting one of these f***ers slip off, catastrophic events will take place. Defense and alert must never get losen under current situation. Shoot-on-sight. This is domestic pre-emptive counter measure which is the safest by far, before we can think of any other aletrnatives.

Though the camera system in the city is a bit inconvenient and rude to Londonners, but when the city is under threats; they prove to be extremely useful.

These terrorists are threatening the world. It's like in the past, the former USSR threatened us using their nuclear weapons. They even set up free-fall type of nuclear rockets in Cuba if one remembers the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 well before we were born. DO NOT THREATEN us, we are and will become even more united and strike you back with the world largest airforce and navy, and beyond doubt, the most awesome firepower beyond imagination. We have the abilities to create radiating nuclear weapons, we are also able to create non-radiating weapons which produce the destructive power to the same effect. Do you remember the giant bomb we used in Afghanistan? It's only massively heavy that's all. I say, 2 to 3 will certainly destroy the capital of Iran for instance. Maybe it takes 4 to take out the capital of N Korea though considering the population there.

I've just been reading this - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4708373.stm.

I couldn't agree more with the viewpoint that the ground rules for the use of lethal force here DO need re-defining.

However, the police have taken advice from officers in countries such as Israel and Sri Lanka which have long experience of suicide attacks. However, the police have taken advice from officers in countries such as Israel and Sri Lanka which have long experience of suicide attacks.

Their advice is that if a suspect clearly has no intention of surrendering, the armed officer should attempt to aim for the head or lower limbs to prevent a suicide belt being detonated.

<I Deleted it>

Another point is, try to think the way these terrorist monster does. They will not surrender anyway, <I deleted it> And negotiation is only for civilised class. Terrorists are barbarian equivalent. They are a low life, with no civilisation or destroyed the day they become a terrorist. Do you expect our officer to say "Freeze, drop your weapons or you will be fired upon?" NO WAY. No use either. Just "SHOOT-ON-SIGHT".

I will be depressed though to see Police carrying guns round their belt. Because England used to give me a very peaceful impression since I was a kid. But then, well, a lady officer carrying a weapon is quite cool. :rolleyes:

admins you might wanna check this thread

I know people take offence when joking about religion

But I definitely take offence when this kind of statements are tolerated, no matter at whom they are directed:

To stop the suspect at once, shooting at the head is the only and also the last option. Besides, the suspect suffers the minimal pain, in fact, it should suffer no pain because it starts and ends in a little less than an instant

because they are suicidal since the beginning maybe even when they were born

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Originally Posted by Q_Son

I concur. Because the result of letting one of these f***ers slip off, catastrophic events will take place. Defense and alert must never get losen under current situation. Shoot-on-sight. This is domestic pre-emptive counter measure which is the safest by far, before we can think of any other aletrnatives.

Though the camera system in the city is a bit inconvenient and rude to Londonners, but when the city is under threats; they prove to be extremely useful.

DO NOT THREATEN us, we are and will become even more united and strike you back with the world largest airforce and navy, and beyond doubt, the most awesome firepower beyond imagination. We have the abilities to create radiating nuclear weapons, we are also able to create non-radiating weapons which produce the destructive power to the same effect. Do you remember the giant bomb we used in Afghanistan? It's only massively heavy that's all. I say, 2 to 3 will certainly destroy the capital of Iran for instance. Maybe it takes 4 to take out the capital of N Korea though considering the population there.

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Yes, but the problem with this new type of threat is - where do you aim all these weapons? I find terrorism abhorrent, but bombing the living cr*p out of every country which we decide might have vague links to terrorism will only add fuel to the fire and kill even more innocent people on both 'sides' .

Sorry Falcon, I take back what I said there.

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Originally Posted by dannyboy27

Yes, but the problem with this new type of threat is - where do you aim all these weapons? I find terrorism abhorrent, but bombing the living cr*p out of every country which we decide might have vague links to terrorism will only add fuel to the fire and kill even more innocent people on both 'sides' .

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Good questions which we might never have a good answer. We are and will be relying on the intelligence jointly collected from ours and the US as well as EU allies. So far, we have interim conclusions that countries like Iran, North Korea and countries who are supporting them are developing their own nuclear weapons. It wouldn't surprise me that these countries are all behind these terrorists. When we come to defining targets, we will aim at structures. As I mentioned before, we need not use nuclear weapons which generate post-explosion radiation. We managed to produce 5,000Kg conventional bomb which creates a blast radius of more than 1 mile. It will definitely wipe out troops who refuse to surrender and military installations. The beauty of this type of weapon is that they do not generate radiation.

In the long run, we must compose and deploy special task force with cutting-edge technolgies. Quantity is out-dated. Modern troops must be small in size but elite in quality. I don't know what the military scientists are up to, but if you would watch Discovery you might find quite surprising technologies that would be deployed in the future.

To disolve terrorism, their backbone must be crushed first. Those countries that are supporting and harbouring them must be removed first.

Firstly: If you haven't noticed already I'm from New Zealand and consider myself neutral to overseas affairs. I'm agnostic (to play to a label)

Hopefully the sentiment aroused by the attack on England will alleviate some of the whipping-boy status which the USA current has. Illegal wars - hahaha what a joke. Since when is any war legal. On Americas part Bush simply decided to be proactive. For decades the US has been attacked from religous elements rooted in the east.
I find it ernormously ironic that Africa is supposed (with good evidence) to be somewhat the cradle of modern humans. Yet the only nations to be advance (non-3rd world as it is coined) are the ones which escaped/left Africa. Englands colonies where very sucessful. Even the African ones where doing fine until they were handed back.
If America is hated so much, why are so many people from all over the globe busting-gut to get in (legally or otherwise).

The seperation of religion and state are very important. The middle doens't have this and hence is doomed to failure in the modern world. You can never please everybody. This is bit of democracy that fails to come across to those who oppose it. When you sign up for democracy (well most of us are born into it), you must agree to disagree from time-to-time. You must not use guns and bombs when the 'others' don't agree.
The poor Americans who didn't agree with the war are not afforded this sentiment. They are lumped into the general and hated indescriminatly - because this is what reglious states do. You are either for us or against us - no neutrality.

Now there will be people from religious led states that think I'm talking utter crap and they don't hate Americans or otherwise. Unfortunately you are also the people that help spur the fundamentalists. Not through any fault of your own. The fundamentalists are true to state. Keep it insular. It worked for as long anyone can remember. Don't rock the boat. Don't weaken the state. Long live nepatism. I'm saying they are protecting there own interests. Much like everybody else. Perhaps it's a matter of limits - cutting off peoples heads is too much for most. America or Britian could easily have flatten vast swags of the middle east with nukes. But they won't because they respect that not all follow the fundamentalist path.

Democracy is the way forwards. The prosperity of the nations that truely adhere to it is proof. The world is just a large business and agreeing to disagree without killing others is essential.


Re-reading my post I can see a mild hipocracy that force (war) is used to impose democracy. This is true. Fighting is necessary at times.

There is so much to talk about...I'll stop there for now

Well, you are in New Zealand doesn't necessarily mean that you can stay away from terrorism. Australia does support the US in the War against Terrorism don't forget. :o

There are rumours that the Chinese government has put tens of thousand of spies in both Australia and New Zealand. As to why they are doing that, nobody really knows.

War should not be judged as legal or illegal. The nature of war is a continuation of another means of politics. Or more precisely, when politics fails to work, war is the only option. Let's assume for a minute that the Japan/German/Italy was the victor of WWII. Then Britain, the US, Russia and China would have been justified as the criminals of war.

In the beginning I did not agree with Bush. But now, I am beginning to understand why Bush declared war against Iraq. In fact, Bush must re-declared war against the Islamic fundamentalist. If my history book knowledge is correct, in the last 800 years or so, the Arabs tried assasinations of European monarchs over and over again. They have never come to terms with the West. Their hatre is deeply rooted in their mind, from one generation to another. The biggest contrast is that our religion, be it Catholic or Christian, teaches us to love and care for others. We don't even say foul languages, think and do blue things. But the Islamic asserts that the West are bad and should not be co-exist with them. The thought is greatly religion driven.

I think some people here should (re)learn some basic concept as
the difference between "suspect" and "convicted"
the link between "democracy" and "legality"
History of religious wars ("crusades" ...11th century,...from Belgium to Jerusalem, heh ?)
Turn the TV off, read a book.
An other tread from info to religion and to the drain.

and just to reitarete Ponches point:

hope you guys are now happy with the work of trigger happy police, after inocent boy is dead:

Man Killed in London Not Linked to Blasts

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Originally Posted by F_A_L_C_O_N

and just to reitarete Ponches point:

hope you guys are now happy with the work of trigger happy police, after inocent boy is dead:

Man Killed in London Not Linked to Blasts

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That is indeed sad :(

However, allow me to express my view on this:

The man in question was a Brazilian electrician, and according to news over here, he was on his way to fit a fire alarm. This suggests to me that he at least understands English, as one, he was negotiating his way through one of the busiest metropolitan areas in the world, and two, fitting a fire alarm would require a fair understanding of English, as this would no doubt require reading of instructions (and being in the UK, I'd hazard a guess at these being in English).

Next, I'll quote this link, 8th paragraph up from the bottom:

Commuter Anthony Larkin, who was also on the train at Stockwell station, told 5 Live he saw police chasing a man.

"I saw these police officers in uniform and out of uniform shouting 'get down, get down'

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I can't see an electrician from Brazil coming all the way over to the UK just to fit a fire alarm (i.e. he would have been over here for a while), so my guess is that he would have heard and understood what had happened the previous day, and indeed 2 weeks ago. If the guy had nothing to worry about, he would have at least stopped and looked around to see what all the fuss was about, not carry on legging it, as to a police officer that just exudes guilt.

I'll further quote Mr Larkin:

I saw this guy who appeared to have a bomb belt and wires coming out and people were panicking and I heard two shots being fired."

I can understand people exaggerating on facts when in a state of panic or shock, but I've seen no CCTV evidence to the contrary at the moment, so I think I'll stick to what this guy's saying as he was an eyewitness to the shooting.

If I was one of the police officers in pursuit of the man, and I saw anything that remotely looked like stray wires and a belt, I wouldn't think twice about defending not just my life, but other people's. He'd be going down, no questions asked.

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Originally Posted by RecklessLeper

If I was one of the police officers in pursuit of the man, and I saw anything that remotely looked like stray wires and a belt, I wouldn't think twice about defending not just my life, but other people's. He'd be going down, no questions asked.

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If there is one thing I learnt is one innocent mans life is worth 100s.

Meaning if police shoots down one innocent man and gives the exuse similar to what you wrote, in the long run it will take the lifes of 100s or maybe 1000s to get back the country where police can NOT roam around shooting people they think pose a danger to them.

So no matter how much terroist attacks you prevent with shoot to kill, not that you prevent any, or with "shoot to stop" policy :rolleyes: :mad:, in the long run the true terrorist will be your police force.
History teaches us that, media however has the severe and acute memory loss syndrome and cant remember anything that happend say even 5 years ago.

Oh and as for running away, dont get me event started on that, please.